Knights in Islamic Realms?

[Beyazit I.]

Hi, first sorry for my bad shool english. :rolleyes:

My question is, if Knights in Islamic Realms will be called Knights like the Game Title or the Islamic equal Emir or Amir.

Thanks for answers.

[Frank Fay]

Each region has its own Knight titles, such as Graf for Germany, Count for France....etc. and yes also Arabian titles :-) That goes for Kings too btw.

[HexHammer]

Coooool!:hello:

[Elewyn]

Thanks for insurance, Frank Fay :) (and your comeback:))

And what about clerics? will they have any titles? like bishop, arcibishop, patriarch or vesir? or druid or kniez, ofcourse for pagans :)

or do only marshalls have their titles?

[Frank Fay]

All Knights have a title :-) You assign a TITLE NAME to the duty of Cleric. He is then WORKTITLE TITLE NAME: Cleric Graf Frank for instance. But the cleric can become Pope and then he has a different title :-)

[Beyazit I.]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
Each region has its own Knight titles, such as Graf for Germany, Count for France....etc. and yes also Arabian titles :-) That goes for Kings too btw.


Hey thanks for your fast respond :cheers:

[Finellach]

What's the name of a Knight in Croatian(South Slavic) version? 'Vitez' or 'Knez'?! Or something else? Also I saw some Hungarian guy in one of the screenshots with the title of Ban which is exclusively Croatian-Bosnian title...no one else had that title.

Btw. 'Ban' is equivalent of Duke and Croatian/South Slavic word for King is 'Kralj'.

FF?

[Nike]

I think in BG it should be Bolyar! The King (or actually Emperor) is Tzar, western Kings are Kral, "lesser" Kings are Kniaz. And I think "Knights" are Bolyars.

[Elewyn]

I think in BG it should be Bolyar! The King (or actually Emperor) is Tzar, western Kings are Kral, "lesser" Kings are Kniaz. And I think "Knights" are Bolyars. No doubt about Slavic origin of those words. In Bohemia an emperor is cisar(from german kaiser) a king is called also "kral", prince: knize (knieze in medieval czech, similar to kniaz), duke: vevoda(similar to polsh wojewoda), count: hrabe.

most common noble titles in Bohemian lands were "hrabe" and "knize" or also "vladyka" for gentry(lower nobility, not so wealthy country nobles owning very often not more than one or two villages)

[Finellach]

Also notice that in South Slavic(Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian, Slovenian) King is Kralj as opposed to Kral in Bulgarian and Bohemian. Also Knez as opposed to Kniaz. Also the word for Emperor is Car, it's spelled out almost equally as Tzar. Also there is Vojovoda which would be the equivalent of Bohemian and Polish version and would mean Duke literally.

The thing is Ban is totally unique title since it does not have slavic roots. Common theory is that this title comes from Avarin language. In any case Ban would be something between a Duke and a King.

[Angryminer]

"would be something between a Duke and a King"
I spent a thought on that...
Perhaps the title of the knights should change with their experience. That would make knight-management an edge easier and give the game yet another cool feature ;) .

Angryminer

[Elewyn]

it would be really great if knights will be able to climb feudal hierarchy, but little senseless.

In royal court most of it's members (in case of KoH knights) are recruited from high nobility, what means dukes and counts and barons (earls?). So when some duke arrive to your court, what you can grant to him? title of a prince only and with that title you should grant him something more(estates in reality, but what in KoH? more rights?more fame points?). It would be senseless IMO

btw. what about arabic and eastern knights-avatars? will we see any?

[Nike]

Originally posted by Elewyn
No doubt about Slavic origin of those words. In Bohemia an emperor is cisar(from german kaiser) a king is called also "kral", prince: knize (knieze in medieval czech, similar to kniaz), duke: vevoda(similar to polsh wojewoda), count: hrabe.

most common noble titles in Bohemian lands were "hrabe" and "knize" or also "vladyka" for gentry(lower nobility, not so wealthy country nobles owning very often not more than one or two villages)

Interesting, the Byzantine empire had Caesar (Kesar) - the second person after the Emperor, we had Voevoda but as leaders of the "militia" against the Turks, and we also had Vladika which was a kind of a priest (main priest for a region). Oh, and Kniaz was a prince, too, like Elewyn said.

[Finellach]

I really wonder how the devs sorted this out actually. I mean there are so many titles that are almost the same or very close, but are not the same thing and since FF said every kingdom will have it's version. IMO that is extremly complicated or I have misunderstood this.

For example in CK(Crusader Kings) there are three main titles for nobles, but all are in english:
Latin: Count, Duke, King.
Orthodox: Count, Prince, Emperor/King.
Pagan: Chief, High Chief, King.
Clerical: Bishop, Archbishop, Pope.
Muslim: Emir, Sheik.

Croatian versions of all these titles should be like this(by order):
Knight - Vitez
Baron - Barun
Count - Grof
Duke - Ban, *Vojvoda
Prince - Princ, Knez
King - Kralj
Emperor - Car

*IMO Vojvoda is actually Slavic version for Duke as opposed to Ban which is non-slavic word.

Imagine now all these titles and the complxity of understanding by which order in every country they should be depending by local influences, reliogn etc. and then try to translate it in every language. Extremly complicated....

[Frank Fay]

not every kingdom I said....if I did so, sorry my fault. We had to split Europe to regions and some kingdoms share the same titles.

[Elewyn]

that's right. Finellach misinterpreted it a little. You said regions, not kingdoms. Regions make sense more than kingdoms becasue we know that kingdoms changed a lot through the time.

btw, another question. if my kingdom originally is from Eastern-Central Europe and I claim a realm in Italy f.e. Knights from that realm will have italian titles, am I right?

[Finellach]

Yes that is understandable. Having the same titles in the kingdoms of the same culture is just as I want it...every kingdoms having it's special titles is wrong.

Btw. does that mean Hungary will have the same titles as Croatia and Bosnia? Thats regarding the screenshot of Hungarian Ban(Duke). ;)

I am also interested in answer to Elewyn's question. I am really interested in how will this work.:)

[Gorgoroth]

Originally posted by Finellach

Croatian versions of all these titles should be like this(by order):
Knight - Vitez
Baron - Barun
Count - Grof
Duke - Ban, *Vojvoda
Prince - Princ, Knez
King - Kralj
Emperor - Car



Vitez & Grof are hungarian, you are using those words as well?
If yes Im really surprised.
The Voivod was a "governor of a province", not a duke.

[Drake Maethor]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
Each region has its own Knight titles, such as Graf for Germany, Count for France....etc. and yes also Arabian titles :-) That goes for Kings too btw.

So Graf is like Sir but in German?

That means that Graf Spee, (the famous german battleship sunk here in the River Plate in the WWII, named after an WWI admiral I think), is something like Sir Spee? Or it has nothing to do with it?

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Gorgoroth
Vitez & Grof are hungarian, you are using those words as well?
If yes Im really surprised.
The Voivod was a "governor of a province", not a duke.

Well notice the similarity between German 'Graf' and 'Grof'. They mean the same thing. I don't know about Vitez. What Voivod(Vojvoda) means in Hungarian is also beyond me.

Btw. why the surprise? Croats and Hungarians basiclly lived in the same country from 12th century to the very begining of the 20th century. :)

P.S. Have I mentioned I am also part Hungarian? ;)