finally i have evidence :)

[kiri_hacker]

Some time ago I said that I could be a Vassal and still have a Vassal using crusades but I couldnt prove it and now i can .... on the first pic you see that the country I made with my crusader (yes it's my vassal) and on the second you see that im a vassal of Sweden !

1. http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9562/vassal1dd4.jpg

2. http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9056/vassal2jt3.jpg

[Lord_Nick]

Very interesting pics! :-)

Can I make a few requests?
1. Please hit F11 to turn on the game clock.

2. Please post pics from the Strategic View (icon from top left hand corner) instead of the Relationship View. Does Trebizond take on the colours of the Teutonic Order or of Sweden?

3. Finally, can you post a pic of your Gold Income/Expenses? Do you have both Income from Trebizonf and Expenses to Sweden?

Just curious :go:

[Elvain]

yay, I second all those requests :go:

[kiri_hacker]

Its now too late to make pictures because the game save has been changed bui I was also interested in those things and I will tell you ofcourse its like this... In the beginning i became vassal of Sweden (because I wanted to) and then with crusades I made my own vassals ... here is how the economy works I pay vassal tribute to Sweden but my vassals dont pay me any tribute ...but I may grant them indipendance ...and they cannot have vassals :scratch: its rather wierd but its true :biggrin:..................... Oh wait i got some images
(http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kohob6.jpg) Im the big white land in the north as you can see both me and my vassal have stripes so this is officially my KOH discovery HAHAH
Ok here is another one
[img]http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2510/kohxf2.jpg

So now that im a Vassal i dont have a big problem with having too much money I still have but they are from crusades mostly...btw I can send crusades against excomunicated catholics ....sososo thats it from me :)

[Elvain]

but they still could be vasals of any other "white" kingdom (and most of their neighbours really are vasals of a white kingdom, are they all your vasals too?)

There are too many things making me suspicious:
- Mostly when a crusader kingdom is founded, it's colours are derived from original owner. It happens very rarely that some already existing kingdom is revived (I noticed it just once in all my more than 100 games)
- there is no time showed on your screenshots
- the screenshots where Trebizond is showed as vasal of Teutonic order is from completely diferent time than later one where both "vasals" are shown (notice that Georgia lies somewhere else than before, Byzantia is replaced by Thrace. How can I be sure they aren't vasals of Genoa or Bdin or any other white kingdom?
- my doubts concerning time are even deepened by the fact that on both Trebizonid screenshots there is another emperor of Trebizond
- in the relations screenshot Trebizond is vasal of Teutonic order and at war with Genoa. What if you granted them independence and then they became vasals of Genoa? What can kill my doubts?


If you can replay the game, I'd be glad to see a screenshots with clear evidence of your claim :wink:

[kiri_hacker]

Ok its like this when you make a crusade and attack a for example Karman and you attack a city that was previousluy owned by Nicea and Nicea doesnt exist anymore you revive nicea and make her your vassal sometimes your relation is good sometimes not and usually you revive nicea's religon too ... So remember this and the white kingdom is Teutonic order i just say white so that you can see it... BTW if you look at the first two pictures with tribozond you will see that they are taken at the very same time so please stop with your suspicion its really useless :cheers:

[Elvain]

the problem is that my experience is diferent.

In one of my last games Spain was revived by some crusade and it WASN'T anyone's vasal (or at least it wasn't visible in the political view). So I am suspicious :go:

[kiri_hacker]

Oh well i guess it is possible that the AI was somebody's vassal and an AI cannot have a vassal and be a vassal at same time like a player.... OR it is possible that the crusade didnt succed but there was a rebbel fighting in a nearby town and took over it's one of those two things :go:

[Elvain]

Oh well i guess it is possible that the AI was somebody's vassal and an AI cannot have a vassal and be a vassal at same time like a player.... OR it is possible that the crusade didnt succed but there was a rebbel fighting in a nearby town and took over it's one of those two things :go:
maybe.
The fact is that the only case I remember this* happening is that there was message: France(or whatever kingdom it was) conquered province of Catalonia from Cordoba, so I expected to see there kingdom of Catalonia, but instead I saw march of Spain at the same place - just several seconds after the message.
The rebels would have to be quite fast :winnk:

*this means when a crusade led to revival of some a kingdom which was already eliminated

(but I think I should improve my memory, I forget too easily :silly:

[kiri_hacker]

Well your online very often you answer almost right away :lol:

[Elvain]

Well your online very often you answer almost right away :lol:
I'm trying to learn for an exam and my concentration is very low :lol: :bash:

[kiri_hacker]

Then its a bit like a chat :) Whats the time at your place here its +01:00 GMT.... oh and you get back to your stdys then ...

[Victus Succor]

Possibly this individual can be a vassal and have vassals not only because he has reawakened an obsolete faction with crusaders.....but maybe because he has reawakened an obsolete faction with crusaders from his country where he also has the pope.

Could this be an overlooked value of the pope undiscovered because everyone is always dumping him to avoid excommunication?

Regardless, I don't doubt his postings. Why lie about something like this?

[mammix]

but it was normal, that one country had vassals and it was a vassal of sb.
there was a proverb: A vassal of your vassal isn't your vassal ;P

[Dobber]

.................. everyone is always dumping him to avoid excommunication?


I don't dump him to avoid excommunication, I dump him to free up the slot for a knight that can be of better use to me!

[patriot1]

"A vassal of your vassal isn't your vassal ;P "
:lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol:

[mammix]

"A vassal of your vassal isn't your vassal ;P "
:lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol:

there was sth like this ;)

[Victus Succor]

Well, I appreicate the advice about the pope. So far, I'm on the second king of my German campaign. I haven't been asked to go on a crusade yet. Nor has any of my clerics been made pope. But, I will go with the flow and see how things progress. I'm planning on working with the Papacy. Maybe this is supposed to be a requirement for winning with a catholic nation.

[Dobber]

Has the Pope died yet? It seems to me Popes live much longer than Kings!