View Full Version : AI spy behavior
Has anyone else experienced any abnormal AI spy behavior?
I was at war with Scotland and the cleric I had hired turned out to be a spy from Scotland and turned one of my provinces over to Scotland when I was going to adopt the population. I hired another cleric and instant;y he was thrown into prison for former crimes against Ireland, it was the same Earl Robert that had handed over my province. I accepted ransom from Scotland, I hired another cleric, boom into prison Earl Robert once again, it was frustrating in the sense I was not getting a cleric to adopt populations with, but on the other hand I was turning a profit hiring him and then ransoming him back to Scotland. I finally hired a spy while Earl Robert was still in prison before ransoming him back to Scotland, this one turned out to also be a spy from Scotland. I had four Scotland Knights in my prison then, two Marshall's and two spies. Guess who they ransomed out, yes, Earl Robert!
It just seemed highly unusual that the AI continued to send the same spy to infiltrate my kingdom.
Lord_Nick
27-01-2007, 19:24
Doesn't seem that illogical to me.
Earl Robert earned at least one star when he handed over that province to Scotland, while the three other spies probably have fewer stars.
Scotland is probably the only kingdom interested in spying on you right now, so their spies go right to the front of the queue.
If they are going to ransom anyone, they will ransom their most valuable spy first (Earl Robert), and then go on down the list in order.
If all you need to do is adopt the population, use a member of the Royal Family as a Cleric and then change him back to his original function. Hiring Clerics can be very risky.
The only royal family member I had at the time was my King and he was a Merchant trading, I didn't want to take the -200 relationship hit by removing him from the trade. And it was just 2 spies the other 2 imprisoned Knights were Marshall's I had captured.
It just seemed illogical they would keep sending the same spy time and time again, with him getting caught immediately!
Angryminer
27-01-2007, 19:56
Yes, it is indeed illogical to send a spy to a nation where he is already known as a spy. The player doesn't do that either, because upon returning he will get caught with a 100% chance.
Angryminer
Right now I had really hard time.
My kingdom (I started as Zenata and united Almohads) almost collapsed and the main reason wwere spies:
I have long lasting problems with heirs (none of my 3 kings had son yet!) so I can only hire kinghts.
And 3 kingdoms are spying against me:
Zirids, Spain and Highlands. I can't get the number of spies who infiltrated my court, some 4-6 merchants were foreign spies (those who were caught were sold for ransom, those who couldn't be recognized were executed), I lost 3 clerics in a row and a spy.
Then number of rebellions emerged, 2 crusader armies invaded my lands and then Zirids declared war (because I executed their spy) During some 5 minutes I lost all my merchants (one against against Croatian crusader in a field battle, 2 in 2x2 battle against Britton crusader and marshal in which I lost Castilia)
So at the moment I have 1 spy - king (all other appeared to be spies), 2 merchants without whose my kingdom would financialy collapse, and I had to cede 2 provinces in order to sign peace with Zirids and Spain.
But I'm actualy waiting when my 2 new marshals will show as spies :(
AI spies are even far more active then in my mod and I thought I encouraged them enough!
Scott716
27-01-2007, 21:01
This may be something that needs to be tweaked(if it can be), I like the spies part of the game but from reading these reports and from my own experiences it sounds like it's becoming to much of the game. Maybe some kind of spy mod to adjust it down a bit ?
We wanted it to be more aggressive and we got it! Maybe to aggressive!
Largefry07
28-01-2007, 02:02
Elvain, why don't you clear your entire court out before your king dies. This all of the spies who inflrated your court will be sent back to their kingdom and no spy will be able to claim your throne. However, I don't know what will happen if you have no court or heirs when your king dies.
@ Dobber, that is one of the reasons why I always kill spies.:cheers:
ouch, the spy thing is a bit annoying for me... they ALL turn our to be spies at a certain point, it is unrealistic (ok, ok is a game not a simulation) but it is also focusing 80% of my fears and I am still (with the patch) much less worried of an enemy invasion or of a war or of loosing a city then of my own Knights!
I'm also finding the AI has really increased the spying. I hired a Cleric, set him to govern, and then lost Provence. Also had 3 merchants take off with gold.
I now keep a spy in court - ALWAYS
Angryminer
28-01-2007, 12:38
The spy-thing only goes haywire if you didn't protect yourself early enough.
Once there are spies in your court you can't hire a spy to defend because it'd be an enemy spy. Thus you can't get rid of the enemy spies. And thus your kingdom is in deep trouble.
It's also a good idea to hire two spies and have one of them return to the court once in a while to check on the other spy. Enemy spies can impersonate a knight at your court. So your defensive spy may have been assassinated and may be an enemy spy by now.
Espionage now really needs early action. If you let the right moment pass you're in big trouble. Somewhat realistic, but a very difficult trap to get out of.
Angryminer
One thing I forgot to mention about Earl Robert from Scotland, One of the times I had him imprisoned, I hired another cleric, so it would not be Earl Robert I was rehiring, then I ransomed Earl Robert. Right after ransoming Earl Robert, the other cleric was caught as a spy and it was Earl Robert from Scotland. Scotland had two spies named Robert? Or perhaps Robert assasinated my cleric as he was leaving prison and took his place?
Lord_Nick
28-01-2007, 16:03
I think the key thing with hiring Knights is to only put them in roles where they can do a minimum amount of damage.
Hiring Clerics, Landlords, and Builders is very risky because they can hand over provinces, or in the case of the Cleric, raise nostalgia and convert provinces.
Hiring Spies is risky because they can kill members of your Royal Family, and allow other Spies to inherit your realm.
Hiring Merchants isn't as bad, as long as you're not a vassal. If you're a vassal, you can be annexed.
If you absolutely need someone in your Royal Court, try hiring a Marshall ... the worst thing they can do is start a rebellion or make you declare peace in the middle of a war.
Scott716
28-01-2007, 17:32
Yeah but by doing all that you take away many gameplay choices. It just needs to be tweaked somehow. Have any modders tried this or is it moddable? I want them to be active but not this active. I need to learn how to mod this game so I can adjust things.
Uhm ... the funny thing is .. there was no change on spies whatsoever :)
Scott716
28-01-2007, 19:05
It must be that something else you changed had an effect on creating more spies...there is definitley a difference after patch.
Frujin, are you serious?
That means only encouragement of the AI to use knights makes miracles :go:
One thing I forgot to mention about Earl Robert from Scotland, One of the times I had him imprisoned, I hired another cleric, so it would not be Earl Robert I was rehiring, then I ransomed Earl Robert. Right after ransoming Earl Robert, the other cleric was caught as a spy and it was Earl Robert from Scotland. Scotland had two spies named Robert? Or perhaps Robert assasinated my cleric as he was leaving prison and took his place?
THis portion of the game is faked by the AI. It doesn't actually appear to keep a pool of spies out there, it is more of a random event type of thing, AFAICT governed a bit by your own counterspying efforts and a limit on the size of an AI's court.
Could be wrong... anyone cheat and switch sides... do you see spies?
There is no cheating on this. AI is fairly appointing and using spies.
Could it be that with the increased money for the AI, it is using the spying arm of the game to more effect? At the moment, every knight I hire turns out to be a French spy, but this is also highlighted under the rumours for France in that they have very dangerous spies.
I now have a 5 star spy sitting at court, picking them off one by one as they infiltrate.
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