View Full Version : Two strange things I just saw
Kris Rhodes
03-02-2007, 19:00
In my last session, I saw the following two strange things:
The strangest: There were two Leinsters, and two Muscovys. The Leinsters were even at war with each other! A bug I guess? It was funny: I got a message later in the history saying "Leinster has completely conquered Leinster!"
The less strange: Bohemia was a giant sprawling nation in one minute, and in the next minute (or the next few minutes) it had been replaced by about seven or eight one-province nations. (Bohemia still existed, reduced to just two or three provinces.) The nations, I think, were just named after the province they were in. For example, one of them was the nation of "Krakow." I am guessing this was the result of rebel activity. Is there a special circumstance under which this kind of massive breakup is programmed to happen, or was it just a bunch of individual rebel breakings-off all adding up?
-Kris
Angryminer
03-02-2007, 19:08
1. What happened is that a rebel in Leinster managed to capture the province of Leinster. Thus he came up with the creative name of "Leinster" for his new empire. That of course was a copyright-infringement and thus Leinster declared war on Leinster. :wink:
2. When a kingdom has no heir it can happen that civil war breaks out and all provinces, except the original ones, declare independance.
Angryminer
The strangest: There were two Leinsters, and two Muscovys. The Leinsters were even at war with each other! A bug I guess? It was funny: I got a message later in the history saying "Leinster has completely conquered Leinster!" it's not a bug.
Original Leinster has expanded and the province of Leinster was captured by rebels so new "rebel kingdom" had the same name: Lenster. And because they were rebels who stood up against Leinster, they were at war with each other
The less strange: Bohemia was a giant sprawling nation in one minute, and in the next minute (or the next few minutes) it had been replaced by about seven or eight one-province nations. (Bohemia still existed, reduced to just two or three provinces.) The nations, I think, were just named after the province they were in. For example, one of them was the nation of "Krakow." I am guessing this was the result of rebel activity. Is there a special circumstance under which this kind of massive breakup is programmed to happen, or was it just a bunch of individual rebel breakings-off all adding up?
no, this wasn't rebel activity, but the king of Bohemia died heirless and the kingdom broke up into "civil war" It witnesses the activity of Bohemian clerics because they probably adopted local populations, otherwise the territories would return back to it's original owners
Kris Rhodes
04-02-2007, 09:39
What does it mean for a cleric to "adopt" a population? Is this just the same as conversion?
Nevermind, I found it by searching for "adopt" in thread titles.
I will tell you in case you don't know: Its the way to get newly conquered provinces not to feel "nostalgia" for their old regime. It reduces rebellion risk, and keeps the province from breaking away in case you die withot heirs.
-Kris
and i saw a straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan ge situation:
Papacy had 2 princesses!!!!! :confused:
Sorry i had forgotten to take a screenshot
and i saw a straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan ge situation:
Papacy had 2 princesses!!!!! :confused:
Sorry i had forgotten to take a screenshotWhat exactly is strange about that? :scratch:
it's not a bug.
Original Leinster has expanded and the province of Leinster was captured by rebels so new "rebel kingdom" had the same name: Lenster. And because they were rebels who stood up against Leinster, they were at war with each otherI think, this is a bug. May be, one call it a feature, but I think, it is a bug. Why? There simply is a checkback missed, checking if the new born lands name is allready used.
Sometimes I got messages from such "double lands". In this case Leinster ask me declaring war on Leinster. If I have a trade agreement or a Non Agression Pact or even more with one of the Leinsters, it will be impossible to find out wich Leinster is asking me - so no matter if I choose "yes" or "no" - each answer may ruining my reputation and kingdom power. So I think, it has to be claimed as a bug.
How can it be a bug, when the game is programmed to default the name of the newly rebel founded country after the name of the Province the rebels captured?
Angryminer
05-02-2007, 14:02
Historically, when a nation broke apart, the two parts used different names. You know that yourself, just remember the Union and the Confederation.
It's not a bug as in "developer-whoopsie" but a bug as in "faulty concept".
Angryminer
I think, this is a bug. May be, one call it a feature, but I think, it is a bug. Why? There simply is a checkback missed, checking if the new born lands name is allready used.
Sometimes I got messages from such "double lands". In this case Leinster ask me declaring war on Leinster. If I have a trade agreement or a Non Agression Pact or even more with one of the Leinsters, it will be impossible to find out wich Leinster is asking me - so no matter if I choose "yes" or "no" - each answer may ruining my reputation and kingdom power. So I think, it has to be claimed as a bug.
It happened in middle ages quite often that 2 countries claimed the same name. There were at least twice in History 2 claimants of kingdom of Poland, king of Bohemia, pope, King of the Romans (german king), Holy Roman emperor, king of England, king of France (100 years war) etc.
The problem here is that the third side can't tell one from the other. You are right that it may cause you problems. I think there are several solutions (some of them can coexist)
1) titles: when a rebel conquers a city and new state emerges, this state should always have some special title ("rebel county") so by the title you could tell kingdom of Bohemia from rebel county of Bohemia.
When 2 kingdoms negotiate, you don't see only the name, but also title
2) when 2 states with same name are at war they can't sign a peace - the only possible outcome of their war is elimination of one of them. If the "rebels" win, they automaticaly use title and banner of original state
(possible problem: when the uprisors didn't uprise against original kingdom but their enemy? The uprising kingdom automaticaly declares war on original name's holder.
3) During negotiations you should always have displayed your relations (like on the map)
In audience window you already see your relations with the negotiator (that advises you that this Leinster diesn't have trade agreement with you, so they are not the Leinster with which you have trade agreement). It would be also nice if you could see, for example:
"I, earl of earldom of Leinster (NA pact) respectfully ask you, mighty king of Bohemia, to attack our foe, rebel county of Leinster (neutral)..."
or
"I, rebel count of rebel county of Leinster (neutral) respectfully ask you, mighty king of Bohemia, to attack our foe, earldom of Leinster (trade agreement)..."
When some provinces have same names like some kingdoms (what you can't change) these are the only ways how to avoid these problems. What other suggestions you have?
In case that the original name's holder isn't kingdom, this could be possible to avoid it by modding (all rebel states are called kingdom). It might be possible to add the titles into audiences
If you really want to be confused, try negotiations with a Kingdom when there are three principalities with the same name in the game, I once had three Muscovy's!
What exactly is strange about that? :scratch:
Does the pope have children?
Even if sb from its court has a daughter, i have never seen a child on it before.
What other suggestions you have?I would prefer some simple checking, if the name of the country already exists in game. If so, then rename the new/the existing country to something different, wether this could be done. If the new country is braking away from a foreign country, a solution may be simply unite it with the existing country of that name.
kevcole33
05-02-2007, 15:35
Sometimes I got messages from such "double lands". In this case Leinster ask me declaring war on Leinster. If I have a trade agreement or a Non Agression Pact or even more with one of the Leinsters, it will be impossible to find out wich Leinster is asking me
actually, there should be a picture of the king when you are first prompted for whatever they want. then you can just go into diplomacy screen and click on each nation, the one with the matching pitcure is the one talking to you. i did this with kiev over the weekend. i had no idea what spawned the double nation in the first place though.
Does the pope have children?
Even if sb from its court has a daughter, i have never seen a child on it before.
The Pope is not the ruler of the principality of the Papacy, so certainly the ruler of the Papacy would/could/should have children.
hm, i've never ever before seen that...
The Pope is not the ruler of the principality of the Papacy, so certainly the ruler of the Papacy would/could/should have children.
But the pope can and they did have children, e.g. Remember Alexander VI and his famous sons, not to mention daughter Lucretcia, married in the same manner as any other daughter of a state ruler.
Yes Borsook, we in our day and time get hung up on the fact that Catholic Priests have not always been forbidden to marry! :biggrin:
Yes Borsook, we in our day and time get hung up on the fact that Catholic Priests have not always been forbidden to marry! :biggrin:
True, and the "ban" did not stop anyone who did not want to be stop - to dwell once again on Alexander VI, his daughter Lucretia became the princess of Ferrara and the marriage was treated as if she were a legimate child of a ruler, the power (and the dowry!) of the of the pope was too great. So all in all I don't see anything "wrong" in papacy in the game having princesses.
Lord_Nick
05-02-2007, 19:14
Is there a special circumstance under which this kind of massive breakup is programmed to happen, or was it just a bunch of individual rebel breakings-off all adding up?
The goal is to keep your populations happy, and to minimize the amount of yellow/orange/red in your Rebellion Risk filter. What are the factors that can affect the likelihood of a large kingdom splintering?
Up to -10 for Nostalgia
Up to -20 for War Weariness
Up to -5 for High Taxes
-5 if populace is of a different religion ... and another -5 while you are trying to convert them
Up to -4 or -5 if a Prince or Princess is killed/assassinated
Up to -10 if a King is killed/assassinated, -20 if two Kings are killed in quick succession, etc
-x if you collect a War Tax
-x if you have negative Kingdom Power
enemy spies disguised as Clerics can raise Nostalgia on all border provinces
rebels, loyalists, and Famous Rebels also reduce happiness ... multiple rebel armies in one province = cumulative effect
Quarries and Silver Mines in a province without Hostels/Inns/King. Adv. to boost Happiness
declaring Jihad in a Muslim kingdom will drop also KP
So, a large kingdom that is managed poorly, or happens to have a number of these events happen in quick succession, may find itself splintering into many smaller kingdoms.
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