Thanks For Removing the DRM

[bigtrouble77]

I just wanted to thank the developers for removing the atrocious DRM this game had in the latest patch. I'm a linux gamer and I'm happy to say Knights of Honor players perfectly on my 64bit linux machine. Couldn't get the previous versions working because of the CD checks. It's also nice to get another patch years after I bought the game. I'm having a lot of fun all over again.

-BT

http://www.thesavageland.org/test/knights.png

[Syagrius]

What the hell is a DRM:scratch:

[Angryminer]

Welcome to the forum, bigtrouble77. :halloha:
Actually KoH never had anything to do with DRM.
(@Syagrius: DRM is the abbrevation of Digital Rights Management, used to e.g. restrict you to play a music file no more than 5 times or fun like that)
As far as I know the copy protection KoH originally had was a self-brewed flavour of SafeDisc or SecuRom, don't remember exactly.

Angryminer

[Doux]

Exactly. KoH uses SecuRom, but apparently it has been disabled by the 1.05 patch - a good development.

[bigtrouble77]

DRM = Digital Rights Management

Maybe I'm technically wrong, but I consider the safedisc/securom to be a form of rights management. It essentially requires you to have the cd in the drive (which can lessen the drive's life) and it also would uninstall Daemon tools if you had it installed- which is simply illegal. Being that I have a laptop I used to use daemon tools (when I had windows) because I couldn't carry all my cd games around with me.

Anyway, the choice to remove those 'features' is a great service to paying customers. We don't like the assumption that we're criminals.

Thanks Angryminer, I have a lot of threads to go through. I'm only just able to beat the game at intermediate at the moment, so I could use some new strategies.

Edit: for those that don't know, daemon tools lets you mount a cd iso so you don't need the physical cd in the drive. It's a perfectly legal program, like bit torrent, but some companies refuse to understand that and attack their customers with abusive and invasive techniques.

[Dobber]

................

Edit: for those that don't know, daemon tools lets you mount a cd iso so you don't need the physical cd in the drive. It's a perfectly legal program, like bit torrent, but some companies refuse to understand that and attack their customers with abusive and invasive techniques.

It can be said that it is a perectly legal program when used properly, but the very nature of the program lends itself to be used illegally, and you know as well as the next person that there are people that use it illegally. It is these people that use it illegally that companies target with their copy protection/cd requirements. Don't blame the software companies with attacks of invasive and abusive techniques, lay that blame on fellow daeman tools and bit torrent users that do abuse the legality of said programs by acquiring illegal copies of games and using said programs to play them. You cannot blame companies for attempting to prevent theft of their product.

But then that is all water under the bridge with Knights of Honor now and has become a non-issue. So there is really no need to argue the legality of daeman tools here is there?

[bigtrouble77]

Well, I don't want to get into a long-winded debate over this because I tend to get a little too passionate sometimes :rolleyes: , but I'll say a few things anyway...

First off, BSS and Sunflowers got enormous bad press when knights of honor was first released. Check out this thread: http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=51875
Now, securom isn't quite as bad as Starforce, but the fact that it targeted and disabled specific DLL's on your system is a HUGE invasion of privacy. The game producers have no right to tamper with my system. Problem is that Windows is so insecure that it's almost too easy for them to not take advantage of it's vulnerabilities. Politicians in the US, and apparently other contries as well, are not interested in protecting the consumers privacy from these types of invasions.

I'm all for companies getting an honest return on their sweat and hard work, but treating the PAYING customer like a thief is not the right way to approach things. Stardock (makers of Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2) have proven you can have a #1 selling game with no copy protection. Stardock simply gives you a serial number which you can use to get constant patches and content updates. That model has worked amazingly well for them. I'm sure most of you would have been happier if Sunflowers invested in more than just 2 patches (and the second one was suprising it came at all).

I'm not trying to slam Sunflowers or BSS, but invasive DRM/Copy Protection is not successful. There's no reliable data that suggests it does anything other than piss off customers. Even the RIAA and MPAA are considering removing DRM from their media because it doesn't work. The point of this thread was to thank the developers for making this great game more accessible. I just hope that if they choose to make a sequel, that the copy protection is just limited to a serial number.

The final thing I want to mention is that you can't, in a democratic society, outlaw something because it can be used illegally. You can't outlaw vehicles, knives, guns, pencils, alcohol, etc. simply because they can be used illegally. If game companies redirected the resources designated to combat piraters for patches and content updates, I imagine they'd get a better return on their investment.

[Dobber]

.............................The point of this thread was to thank the developers for making this great game more accessible. ..........................................

I couldn't agree with you more, your first post clearly shows that as the point and intent of the thread.
So what was the point of your second post?
Why was there a need to promote the legality of daeman tools and bit torrents?

[Angryminer]

I think we can lead a positive discussion about this. No grim faces on my side.

My personal experience:
1. SecuROM & KoH
KoH always ran fine with Daemon-Tools. I used both myself since KoH came out and never had a problem with running both. It just refuses to start in case it finds that the KoH-CD is being simulated. Or it asks you to please allow it to check wether KoH is currently mounted as a virtual device. Problems only occur if you either don't own a legal copy or you don't know how to operate daemon-tools.
So from my point of view the KoH copy protection always did what it was supposed to do: Check wether it is currently being simulated, and start if it can see that it isn't. I'd be glad if all software worked like that.
2. The Stardocks system:
I ordered GalCiv2 myself because I originally liked the approach. And I believe it failed. Their "copy protection" works in conjunction with the update-system. You can only update if you bring proof that you bought the game. And that works just plain bad.
I can't play the game in german because Stardock & Paradox Entertainment fail to provide proper translations. So to get rid of the bugs I have to play in english. The Stardock-software system failed to update my copy twice, and when trying to create an account at Stardock's site it didn't accept any of my registrations until I tried to register several new eMail accounts until I eventually found a provider Stardock's system accepted. Again, without ever pointing out why they didn't accept my earlier eMail-addresses.
The license-validation process used by Stardocks works very very badly in comparison to a validation via a typical CD-copy protection.
I do not intend to buy any new software from Stardocks. I'd rather go with SecuROM.
Again, that is my experience.
3. DRM:
DRM is based on a data-license encryption system. Read up on DRM on wikipedia. Please don't mix the terms DRM and copy-protection.

I'd like to hear your opinions on those points. Discussion is always a good thing. :go:

Angryminer