some objections to "late medieval" entry point

[Elvain]

It's great thet we ultimately saw also map of the last entry period of KoH.

I would have some little objections to it, to move it little to historical accurancy.But all those are just my proposals...
there are 2 screenshots Angryminer showed (:go: )late period (http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/medium/3_Knights01.jpg)
central europe in the late period (http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/medium/KHintergrund.jpg)

I would like to ask the devs to change those things if possible:
1. make realm of Flandre part of Gelre (in 1360 Flandre came from Margaret of Flandre to her housband duke of Burgundy (I guess Philippe the Bold, but I am not sure)). Also Alsace should be included to Burgundy
2. realm of Silesia should be part of Bohemia (when Charles of Luxembourg(king of Bohemia in 1346-1378) inherited the kingdom, almost Whole Silesia already was under Bohemian controll and the last few (3 of over 20) Silesian principalities were in vassality to Bohemia, so I guess it would be more correct with Silesia under Bohemian dominance instead of Polonian.

---EDIT---
and change name of that strange yllow state between Bohemia and France form Germany to HRE, pleeease:D this is just my wish, impossible to be done, I know. Just to remember those good old times when there was a hope left :)
---end of EDITED----
Thanks if you consider those changes..

[Angryminer]

My comment on both proposals:
I guess the late-entry-point is this way for the balance's sake.
A smaller Poland would lead to a domination of the Teutonic Order. A smaller France to German domination.

But I fully support your proposal of Alsace being property of Burgundy.

@Edit: :go:

Angryminer

[Kuno of Gersenau]

@Elvain: lol...:D...observing observing...

Don't know if this will have succes, but maybe a bit of hope for you is left...

[Elvain]

My comment on both proposals:
I guess the late-entry-point is this way for the balance's sake.
A smaller Poland would lead to a domination of the Teutonic Order. A smaller France to German domination.

But I fully anticipate with your proposal of Alsace being property of Burgundy.
maybe you are right, mate, but I don't think I asked for making France smaller. Flandre is on those maps included in Gelre what is REALLY strange!

In cases of Poland/Bohemia and Teutonic domination you are right. But I don't know why Alsace shouldn't be part f Burgundian property. I know that Alsace exactly never was part of it, but in the other hand, it was the last bigger duchy in that region out of Burgundian rule. In those times also Franche-Comté(free county of Burgundy), which is quite near, was under Burgundian dominancy. And burgundy in late 14th and especially in 15th century was a big threaten to France (in war with England)

[timurlenk]

i dont think one or another "smaller" kingdom will kill the balance - its a matter of diplomacy, allies and so on. there ARE smaller and bigger ones, so some small improvements will not kill balance. imho, of course. :cheers:

and of course i support elvains wish to rename this funny named yellow kingdom :silly:

[Klauwaart]

When I took a narrow look at the map of the early period - It seems that Flanders belongs to Germany and not to France

So maybe a dev can answer it - do we belong to Germany in the first 2 periods ?

thx

Klauwaart

[Elvain]

yeah, I would really like to see here any devs's stetement.. if all those things, alongside with those changes (in late and high medieval periods) suggested in other threads

or if everything already IS decided without any promissed changes (:angry: )
or if everything already is decided including those (yet unknown) changes
or if you still consider what will be fixed and what not...

can we get any answer, please?

[Elvain]

first, sorry for doubble posting

but...
it looks like there may be some success in Gelre/Flandres thing.

What about the rest?
Now I mean especially some fixations we asked for in other 2 eras: high and early.

Now I mean especially those:
rename Ukraine in high to Kiev
unite Sicily and Naples in the high into Sicily only
"add" Sweden to the early period.

Is there any chance for us? I know this may be boring for you, devs, to read this again and again, but we asked for it long time ago and we hear no echo...

[Finellach]

I agree.

There was no Ukraine only Kiev or Kievan Rus.

Also Sicily and Naples were definately united in 1250, Naples and Sicily were divided into two kingdoms 1268. A.D. when Naples went to Angevin line and Sicily to Aragon line.

And also it's not even worht mentioned that Sweden MUST be in early period.

[Finellach]

I did some research myself and I studied some maps and I have come to the conclusion some "nations" are missing in all entry points and some need to be removed and some need to be renamed.

1000. A.D.

There should be:

Flanders - vassal of France
March of Spain/Barcelona - vassal of France
Dioclea(later Zeta) needs to be added.
Sweden needs to be added especially!

1200. A.D.

This time period has even more mistakes, there should be:

Connaught
Ulster
Leinster
Normandy - vassal of England
Gascony - vassal of England
Aquitaine - vassal of England
Toulouse/Languedoc - vassal of France
Flanders - vassal of France
Holland - vassal of Germany
Brabant - vassal of Germany
Champagne - vassal of France
Provance - vassal of Germany
Savoy
Pisa
Slavonia - vassal of Hungary
Bosnia - vassal of Hungary
Moravia - vassal of Bohemia
Silesia
Little Poland
Great Poland
Mazovia
Galicia/Galich(Polish Galicia)
Pereyaslavl(Russian principality)
Chernigov
Polotsk
Cilicia(New Armenia/Armenia Minor)
Baleares(as Arab Emirate).
Ukraine NEEDS TO BE RENAMED IN KIEV

1350. A.D.

This period also has mistakes like Glere and Leinster.
Gelre should be removed since this was not important county as some other Low Counties/Duchies(f.e. Holland, Brabant, Flanders) and Leinster didn't existed anymore since whole Ireland was conquered by the English so there should be whole Ireland instead of Leinster.

These changes are needed:

Ireland - vassal of England
Aquitaine - vassal of England
Bosnia - vassal of Hungary
Achaia/Peloponesos
Athens
Sicily(Trinacria)
Epeiros
Flanders - vassal of France
Holland
Brabant
Moravia - vassal of Bohemia
Bavaria - vassal of Germany

I hope someone of the devs reads this and I hope there is still enough time to implement and correct these obvious mistakes.
In the end - please do so! :(

[shagrath_the_dead]

well,mayby,hopefully,we can change it ourselves if a editing program will be released by the devs,but indeed you're right,i do miss my own beautifull little holland in the whole game :( :nono:

[Finellach]

Well hopefully someone of the devs will read this. Frujin hinted that there will be some changes to the "finals kingdoms list" and I wholeheartedly hope so. ;(

[Elvain]

I would support your suggestions except those, where vassal is the same person as the overlord...

so this would remove
Acquitaine and Normandy - vassals of England
Moravia - vassal of Bohemia in high and late

also those states having no separate realm in the game: Brabant, Baleares etc.

I fully support Ukraine to Kiev thing, Sweden which is absolutely ridiculous not being included, Flandres at least in the high period and Bavaria in the late. But I must say I prefere puting Bavaria to the right place: west of Austria and east of Swabia, so I would like to ask the devs to rename actual realms of Tyrolia (to Bavaria) and Bavaria (to Swabia). I guess it's little strange that Bavaria is next to Alsace

[Finellach]

Yes I have noticed that there is no Brabant, Baleares, Gascony, etc...
Ah well...

[Noldy]

If the game is very modable, you might even change the titles yourself :D

[Finellach]

If the game is very modable, you might even change the titles yourself :D

Let us hope for that. :)

[Sharky]

I did some research myself and I studied some maps and I have come to the conclusion some "nations" are missing in all entry points and some need to be removed and some need to be renamed.

1000. A.D.

There should be:

Flanders - vassal of France
March of Spain/Barcelona - vassal of France
Dioclea(later Zeta) needs to be added.
Sweden needs to be added especially!

1200. A.D.

This time period has even more mistakes, there should be:

Connaught
Ulster
Leinster
Normandy - vassal of England
Gascony - vassal of England
Aquitaine - vassal of England
Toulouse/Languedoc - vassal of France
Flanders - vassal of France
Holland - vassal of Germany
Brabant - vassal of Germany
Champagne - vassal of France
Provance - vassal of Germany
Savoy
Pisa
Slavonia - vassal of Hungary
Bosnia - vassal of Hungary
Moravia - vassal of Bohemia
Silesia
Little Poland
Great Poland
Mazovia
Galicia/Galich(Polish Galicia)
Pereyaslavl(Russian principality)
Chernigov
Polotsk
Cilicia(New Armenia/Armenia Minor)
Baleares(as Arab Emirate).
Ukraine NEEDS TO BE RENAMED IN KIEV

1350. A.D.

This period also has mistakes like Glere and Leinster.
Gelre should be removed since this was not important county as some other Low Counties/Duchies(f.e. Holland, Brabant, Flanders) and Leinster didn't existed anymore since whole Ireland was conquered by the English so there should be whole Ireland instead of Leinster.

These changes are needed:

Ireland - vassal of England
Aquitaine - vassal of England
Bosnia - vassal of Hungary
Achaia/Peloponesos
Athens
Sicily(Trinacria)
Epeiros
Flanders - vassal of France
Holland
Brabant
Moravia - vassal of Bohemia
Bavaria - vassal of Germany

I hope someone of the devs reads this and I hope there is still enough time to implement and correct these obvious mistakes.
In the end - please do so! :(
Yes, I fully support you. And I think that Zeta shouldn't be called Principality because in 1077. it became a kingdom (I know it, I'm from Montenegro,ex Zeta).

[FrankishKnight]

I would suggest the Frisians in all periods, simply because they were independent from Gelre ( which had...*counts* zero influence in Europe.

Also: Frieseland is a province, and Gelre isn't. So why Gelre?

And I am NOT from Friesland.