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William Blake
30-09-2004, 08:48
You might think that the combat is a simple as it looks, just another RTS – select all, click on enemy, watch. You are wrong.

Game features you should know about, but you probably don’t:

1) On “tower” maps you can buy new units in the battle. To buy units make a camp with your marshal, on you left bottom will be big icon with hand with sack of gold.


Then you buy a new unit in a combat you have to have free slots in your army. Meaning you maybe need to loose some units from your initial army if you had a lot of units at the start.

More towers you flag more income you receive with time, but the maximum is 1000 gold. The tower map may be very strategic if you don’t crash enemy at the start.

2) Your units can heal dead men and archers can recover arrows.

To heal men or get new arrows break a camp and let men rest, you can click on the camp and see the stats of unit. The downside of camping is that you can’t move your units, but if attacked on the spot your men will get out and fight.

To more again click on big button on your left bottom, and the unit will get together, it take some time you can see the green progress bar over the camp.

Try to wait as much as you can and leave the damaged unit camp until it get all the arrows and men, only then click to “move out”.


3) There are 5 steps in loose/tight formations for a unit. It’s very hard to order by mouse drag, so use the little buttons, you can click them as far as they are not shaded, with every click the tightness will change for one step.


This is arguably the most important order you can give – the tightness of units formation. Remember – loose formation as much as you can then you are under archers fire, then you go hand to hand tighten as much as you can, but make sure you are facing right direction, in tight formation unit can turn fast but it can be hit hard from the back and sides.

4) Towers on tower maps are hard to storm, don’t be afraid to leave one archer unit on a tower, it will drive away most of 1-2 infantry unit assaults.

On the other hand, don’t try to storm a tower, best way to get 3-4 archer units, loose them at maximum and shoot until all enemy on the top is dead. You can do what ever you want, but consider yourself warned, you can loose some men at arms storming that tower.

General tactics and strategy

At the start you do 2 things – you check all your army and then you check all enemy.

Note: who has more cavalry, especially feudal knights, how many? Who has more archers, how many? Does enemy has more spear or sword infantry.

Then divide your army – move cavalry apart, at any given situation you’d better have cavalry and infantry separated because they need different tactics. Cavalry needs a lot of space, infantry needs a safe position.


I suggest you to set all your units in very tight formation you will see more units on the screen and move faster to the battle positions.

If enemy is on a distance move you army without any order to the best position, but leave yourself time to extend and order your units on the position before enemy can possibly hit you, if he does you are owned. If you sure you have time you can rush your units to get on the position faster and buy some time to re-arrange the army on the spot, but make sure you will have near full stamina at the moment of engagement.

Always keep the eye on the enemy movement, I personally spend more time watching the enemy then moving my troops, especially at the start, don’t miss his units flanking you or hiding behind the trees and buildings. Watch his cavalry, if he set the cavalry apart and move it far from the main army it can be very deadly or very dead – don’t miss your chance.

As I said before cavalry needs free space and infantry needs secure position. Don’t let your cavalry be stuck in a narrow passage or don’t have a clear and wide way to run away. The more cavalry you have the bigger the distance can you allow from it and your main army. Basically 4 or more cavalry with 1 or more feudal knights can operate with no support from the main army. I would flank a lot with such a force and operate about half map apart from my infantry. Just make sure you have way to flee and you are watching them not to get in trouble then you are not looking, don’t move cavalry near the enemy since it can charge right to the death without your permission.

Now the infantry, infantry takes a lot of space and it’s slow, so you need safe position, best way is to have enemy facing you front and have your flanks secured by hills, water or map borders. But most of the time you will have enemy from 2 sides: front and one flank. Here you can make 2 mistakes: you can loose some units in the maneuver or combat and enemy can hit one your part and the other can’t get there in time, or you can be flanked, such that enemy will strike not your melee fresh units of first row, but archers or camps from side or from behind. It will be especially bad if you have your marshal there without any real cover.

So you watch where the enemy is moving, don’t just get closer to him, always move a bit to the sides to make him turn his front and get away form his flanking. If you have a lot of cavalry you can move it on one side and enemy will be between your infantry, so he wont have open field to maneuver and you will know there he can go.


Always try to estimate the distance and time you need to hit the enemy from all sides, the most common mistake with handling several separated armies is to move way too far and let your one army be crashed while another can do nothing about it.

Once you decide to engage enemy with one army, try to engage him with the other – he will be distracted and lose the moment and you will exactly know then the action begin. As always try to hit archers or weak back units, storming rush on the prepared enemy front rarely leads to success.

Try to avoid crowd at all costs, always leave some space to move your units freely without affecting others, in a one crowd its very hard to find and select one unit, its hard to get through fast, turn and change formations, in a crowd all you unit advantages are lost since all you units engage enemy randomly and suffer from arrows. If you happen to be loosing you can’t save any units from the crowd, but second row can always leave. So if you was hit badly, don’t try to “save” units already crashed, but retreat, they are dead anyway, but they are buying you time to regroup, if you rush to help them you will loose the rushers too.

Always try to have second line of fresh or ordered units, then you first row flees enemy is weak too, so its very good to hit him with fresh troops, even if not, the second fresh line of defense will allow your fleeing units to get out of the mess and stop in safety. If you let enemy chase them they will surrender and then you really lose the unit, units that lost men and some morale can always camp to regain strength.

Even if you win the skirmish, try to get your fighting units out and replace them with fresh wave, most likely enemy will flee, but you first row has no stamina no lots of men to chase them, so fresh troops will make the final blow and chase the enemy with full stamina and you first row unit can camp immediately and regain the loses under cover of the second wave fresh troops.

If you won initial battle and enemy fled, don’t try to kill them all at all costs, return your troops that are chacing the enemy back to the camping spot, regroup and carefully check your army and enemy all over the map, especially look for flanking or regrouping units, its very common to feel like you won then you did not. Stay calm, don’t let the victory slip away, see that cavalry over there? And these “look like shattered” dozen enemy units all around you? You need order and strength, never underestimate the enemy. Remember, once enemy “feel” like loosing he will go for your marshal, guard him good.


That would be all for “quick guide”, thank you for reading.

PS
“….All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him….”
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War


Good luck.

Frujin
30-09-2004, 10:13
William Blake, I'm impressed! Your post inspired me to add few short hard facts about battles:

1)
A single unit won't obey your commands if he fights with enemy unt. He will first try to kill his opponent and then (if still alive) will try to do what you telling him to do. I.e. units are afraid to turn their backs to those their fighting with. That's why escaping from battle is not easy and must be kept in mind.

2)
The more "distorted" from the ideal is the formation of the squad - the weaker is their defence.

3) Forests are important, cavalry abd ranged units are weaker in forests, hand-to-hand infantry has attack bonus. This doesn't mean that you can defeat 2 squads of Feudal knights with one squad swordem.

4)
It matters from what direction you attack enemy squad. Flanks - higher attack, Back - double attack

5)
Morale is the most important thing in KoH. We will create separate thread about it

6)
Terrain is impotant. Ranged units can have up to double effectivenes if they are placed well on top of the hill.

7)
Making your units running costs you morale decrease. Noone likes to run.

8)
To charge you must have 100% stamina. The effect of the charge is increased attack bonus. The amount of the bonus depends of stamina at the moment of the clash. Ideal charge is from such a distance, that by the time you reach your enemy, you still have exacly 50% stamina.

9)
The squads are looking at the situation arround them. They are happy when you win, when enemy retreating, when flanks and back is protected, and many more.

10)
A good thing is to know how many arrows the enemy have before the storm. This can decide the battle.

hawk_knight
30-09-2004, 16:35
Nice multiplayer guide William Blake :cheers: :cool: 8)

King Yngvar
30-09-2004, 17:27
Ok guys, time to edit your posts and delete all you have written, we don't want everybody out there to know the arts of war :)

Lord_Guilherme
30-09-2004, 18:50
Good guide Willian. But if I were you, I wouldn't reveal my techniques to the others. And thanks Frujin for showing those facts. It will help a lot.

William Blake
30-09-2004, 18:58
You can't hide knowledge from others, but you can take credit for teaching them.

And its unfair to use game feautures you know but enemy doesn't, its not the point of the game, then you play chess you expect opponent to know how all pieces can move or whats the fun?

Lord_Guilherme
30-09-2004, 19:37
I would reveal to my friends, but not to the entire world in a public forum. My way of thinking is different than yours. I may reveal somethings, but I mostly keep them secret. Only to my archenemies (in th game of course, which usually are personal friends), allies and clan members I say my secrets. I wouldn't like to see a strategy I created or something similar to become a fashion.
When I play with people I don't know who is, I play to win. When we play some matches (and me beating him most times of course) I may teach him what I do or what he should do to beat me (so our matches are more challenging).

stainless
30-09-2004, 20:22
fantastic guide, man! thank you :)

i will use this heavenly knowledge right away on gamespy to bring hell on my enemies! ;)

William Blake
30-09-2004, 21:32
Well, Lord_Guilherme, I see your point, but I think people should know basic features of the game they play, now I clearly see that very few men know how to heal a unit or recover arrows, not to mention capturing the towers and buy new troops. People have hard time mastering the interface and they can't order or dont understand what will be right formations.

And now this should be clear to everyone, beacause there is no honor in winning then enemy dont know the keys and buttons.

Lord_Guilherme
01-10-2004, 03:45
If the guy don't read the manual or the help thing that appear when you put the mouse over the figure, then I don't think this guy can ever be an adversary for you (except if he didnt understand the language)

Wynche
01-10-2004, 04:41
And now this should be clear to everyone, because there is no honor in winning when enemy dont know the keys and buttons.

:cheers:

Impressed...
Admirations for the way you think :go:
Now that's a real Knight of Honor!

Nicolin de Odel
02-10-2004, 07:26
Indeed, everyone should be given equal chance to try and achive victory on the battlefield, and for those who are less fortunate of not knowing how to play is a dishonorable way to win, to defeat a knight like this would bring only the greedy pride in their so called victroy. Keep your own respects for Honor of yourselves and of others...

Most of us have special ways of doing things while in battle, be that leading your friends as general, listening to others orders, unit strats, formations and so on... All Men with honor in our kingdoms should respect this.

Lord_Guilherme
02-10-2004, 08:29
And now this should be clear to everyone, because there is no honor in winning when enemy dont know the keys and buttons.
Honor?
What's the use of honor?
I sold mine long ago.

William Blake
02-10-2004, 08:52
I didn’t intend to make this a matter of personal flame wars. Please keep it clean, I want to educate people about basics of the game, that’s all.

This supposed to be extended help new guys could read and get information they really need, not a thread of “my honor is this, and your honor is that”.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Lord_Guilherme
02-10-2004, 08:59
I knew what you mean.

Lord_Guilherme
02-10-2004, 08:59
End of Discuss in my part.

William Blake
04-10-2004, 20:28
Part 2 - forming an army.

Obviously map there you can buy troops are preferred by people. While fighting with a random army against another random army on an open field requires a lot of skill, knowledge and bravery to win with randomly weak army against randomly strong enemy, the feature of buying units on your own gives people feeling of security and hope to secure victory by good army setup. It also helps to reflect player’s favorite battle style - some like cavalry, some like tons of arrows filling the air.

Basics of unit classes:

I distinguish 4 unit classes in KoH, shock infantry, defensive infantry, ranged and cavalry.

Shock infantry are melee units with axes and swords, they are very good against all other infantry including archers, their best pray is enemy defensive infantry and worst enemy is cavalry. (for short I’ll call this class “swords”)

Defensive infantry have long weapon like spears or halberds. There are very few units of defensive infantry but they are uber against cavalry. Anything else is very average. (for short I’ll call this class “spears”)

Ranged units are very good against any infantry on a field if enemy is not moving much. However ranged units require some cover from enemy rush on an open or strong position like a tower. Worst case scenario for ranged units is enemy cavalry on an open field. The distinctive feature of ranged units is limited number of arrows, which makes them very weak after some shooting. These require safe camping spots in long battles so they can be useful. (for short I’ll call this class “archers”)

Basics of army composition:

There 2 possible options available to you: “good all around” and “specific” army setup. Good all around army will include all 4 classes so for anything enemy can have you will have something to answer with. For specific army you sacrifice some flexibility to gain advantage in some areas, for example you don’t take cavalry at all, but you have more archers and swords.

Most new people tend to like good all around armies. But this can be a deadly mistake. Unfortunately practically every good all around army is weak against ANY specific army. It’s plain to see that if enemy has a lot of swords your spears don’t add much, your archers won’t stop them and cavalry is probably too few to beat them. If he has a lot of archers you cavalry won’t be enough, and if he has a lot of spears your few swords wont make a difference.

Second problem with good all around army is that it’s hard to use. You don’t have a lot cavalry which can act on its own, so your support infantry will slow it down (you lose advantage of cavalry). Your archers are too weak to suppress enemy archers or stand infantry charge and they will use their arrows fast and go camp. So you again you need all your army to support archers. Your spears are too few to stand up enemy “cavalry only” charge and vulnerable to enemy swords, so they too can’t act alone.

On the other hand very specific army is also not very good. Well, its good but it relies on chances. Lets say you have only cavalry units – you move all your army very fast, you don’t afraid enemy swords or archers, you can crush enemy cavalry and most likely overrun enemy few spears, but in worst case scenario enemy will have more spears that you can handle, you can’t take towers, you are weak in forests, enemy archers on hills and towers can be deadly and since cavalry is pricy you will have few units and men, so enemy will have morale advantage. Not to mention possibility of enemy having same specific army as you and it all will be a matter of one wrong move for you to lose.


So in you army you should focus, but not too much. Ask yourself “on this map, what classes I need most and what I can live without”. Then think about your enemy “do I expect enemy to use any specific army? If yes what would be worst case scenario for him? If I don’t know the enemy, what would be best classes for him and what can I do about it?”

Once you choose 2 classes you need most make them strong. If you feel that archers are the key to the map – take better and more archers, level them up with stars. Remember you need to be really strong at something or you will be weak everywhere. Now that you compose 2 classes strong army look at it and think of the total nightmare. What if enemy sees your army right now and he will have very specific army to deal with it.

This is very important always think “what if I’m totally wrong and he is totally right about army setup, what I’ll do?” Maybe if you add some other classes it will help you stand a chance and fight on some condition. Maybe in worst case scenario you can’t win an assault but if you add these 2 units you could mount a decent defense that will buy you time to flag towers and get money for other units to counter your enemy.

In short you need to think of every detail of 2 cases “I have worst possible and best possible army” what you will do in both cases? Because then only map starts you need to act quickly before enemy recognizes the great trouble or great opportunity and makes his moves. Then the enemy is certain about victory or loss he will act very fast, then he doesn’t know the outcome he will move slowly, watching and thinking.

Second, if not the first rule of multiplayer is - “never rely on one tactics and setup all over again”. This is very simple really, you play with humans, humans learn fast. Once you show you uber army several times enemy will know it and will come up with a counter setup that will own you totaly. Moreover using one setup all the time weakens you senses, you become very good with you loved classes but lose perspective of others. You should switch time to time to refresh the feeling of other unit types so you will know how the enemy feels and what can or can’t be done with these units.

Have several possibly good setups in mind and use them all randomly, then enemy wont know what to expect and you will feel strong and weak spots of every specific class and army setup so you will know how to counter then.

As last basic rule – know the units. Do you know what the fastest cavalry in the game is? You see Steppe Cavalry – what should you expect? You see Hobilars, what nation enemy is playing with, what other units he can buy in progress? It takes time to know these things, but you should pay attention. Once you encounter with unit you don’t know watch it closely, how is it related to units you know? Faster? Stronger? Weaker? How enemy use this type? How successful your counter measures are?

That would be all I can say about army composition, note that I don’t suggest any particular setups but guidelines and general logic behind it. Setup you army as it feels right and may the victory follow.

Nicolin de Odel
05-10-2004, 03:56
General logic behind it, I think this guy is the second Napoleon... Sheesh... :cheers:

William Blake
05-10-2004, 04:40
LoL man its very basic logic of warfare, you maybe would be really interested in a "further reading" try "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli and "The Art of War" by SunTzu:)

No offence

Nicolin de Odel
05-10-2004, 15:11
None Taken. lol