Kilted Saracens?

[WAR_PIG]

Now don't get me wrong, I love seeing my Highlanders side by side with Saracens invading Oslo :cheers: .......but is this historically accurate? I'm not a historian by any means, but I would assume The Church would have frowned on using Muslim Mercs :sick: . Did this happen?

[Keiper]

I don't care. If a bunch of hardcore fighters came up to me and said, "Hey! We wanna kill for you!" I would say, "Sure thing!" Hundreds of men with axes and arrows and spears? Heck I'd hire them.

What the Pope don't know won't hurt him. :cool:

[Nike]

Well, Norman mercenaries attacked my city (Sofia). Why can't Saracens attack Oslo?

[the knightly sword]

Now don't get me wrong, I love seeing my Highlanders side by side with Saracens invading Oslo :cheers: .......but is this historically accurate? I'm not a historian by any means, but I would assume The Church would have frowned on using Muslim Mercs :sick: . Did this happen?



i really dont think so but they hire mercinares from other relgions like ( mongolians). but koh is a game and yes sometimes catholic kingdoms hire arabian muslim mercinares if they dont got the require ments for troops

p.s welcome back war pig :) :hello: :bday:

[sera]

Well, Norman mercenaries attacked my city (Sofia). Why can't Saracens attack Oslo?I don't think KoH is bothered with historical accuracy, so why not indeed? If realism was an issue though, I could list several good reasons.

First off; no Christian lord would ever have even allowed an armed muslim force to move around freely, much less allow them to attack fellow christians in the heart of Europe. In the example mentioned by the original poster, the lord hiring the Saracens would have been excommunicated. This is the age of crusades after all. This is assuming the Saracens wouldn't succumb to hypthermia in the northern climate. :cool:

As for Norman mercenaries attacking faraway lands is largely in line with what Normans did historically. Normans were originally norsemen who carved out a realm in France in the early 9th century.The ancestors of the normans, the vikings, travelled to Constantinople or Miklagard as they called it (which is further away than Sofia), and became an elite mercenary force called the Varangaian Guard in the mid 8th century. The greatest export of the Norman nation were its Warrior-Knights. At first the Norman knights were mercenaries, but they soon began to carve out estates for themselves and by 1071 the Normans defeated the last Byzantine foothold in southern Italy. Robert de Hauteville, the son of a poor knight from the Cotentin in Normandy. Started out as a mercenary in Campania, a brigand in Calabria, then became the count of Melfi, duke of Apulia, Calabria and Sicily and, finally, nearly emperor.

Normans conquered England in the 10th century. The first crusade was compose of feudal nobles from France, Germany, and Norman Italy and they proceeded overland to Constantinople. At the end of the 11th century Norman forces conquered parts of the crumbling Byzantine Emprie, including Thessalonica.

Excuse the history lesson, but I felt it was warranted. ;)

[Nike]

Actually, we and the Byzantines have used Turkish mercenaries in our wars. So religion is not a problem when it comes to power and war.

[sera]

I believe Bulgaria was a part of Byzantium and Orthodox at the time? Anyway, be that as it may, a Muslim army would have been met with armed resistance if they trespassed into Europe proper. Making it highly unlikely it would ever have reached Scandinavia. Muslims had no naval power to speak of and no Catholic Christian would have utilized a force as mentioned by the original poster against fellow Catholics. History shows Normans on the other hand, had ample opportunity and motive to wage ware where they wanted. :)

[WAR_PIG]

I love when the historians come crawling out of their holes to debate. It's like watching an educational pit fight between two cobras :angry: I really appreciate your responses and I did learn quite a bit.

Does anyone think that there are too many mercs in the game? It seemed like around every bend there was a tent filled with skilled attackers. And doesn't having a large mercenary force negate the reason to upgrade many of the military buildings?

Thanks for the hearty welcome back, Knightly Sword! :cheers:

[Nike]

No, Bulgaria was not a part of Byzantium but, yes, we are Orthodox. And, no, Turks are muslims and they had a strong naval power. But not in the northern sea.

[Finellach]

What do you mean Bulgaria was not part of Byznatium? What was it then?

[sera]

No, Bulgaria was not a part of Byzantium but, yes, we are Orthodox. And, no, Turks are muslims and they had a strong naval power. But not in the northern sea.
You're wrong. The powerful Byzantine Emperor Basil II (r. 976-1025), was known as Bulgar Slayer and removed this people as an offensive threat to the Empire. Bulgaria became part of the Byzantine Empire in 1018, obtaining its independence in 1188.

I haven't gotten the full game yet but AFAIK the Turks, or any other muslim state for that matter, didn't have significant naval forces to in the timeline covered by the game. Be that as it may, Muslims hardly ever traversed far outside the mediterranean or the arab gulf in that early period, while Vikings (the Norman ancestors) had centuries earlier crossed the Atlantic.

[Frujin]

@Nike: sera is right here about muslim naval power at that times.

@sera: Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II used muslim mercenaries in his battles against the Rome. For example. muslim mercenaries were not very common for Catholic Europe - but still used occasionaly.

[Nike]

Yes, sorry! We were under Byzantine rule from 1018 till 1188. You just didn't point a period, so I assumed you mean that we were constantly part of Byzantium. Sorry for the missunderstanding!

[sera]

@sera: Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II used muslim mercenaries in his battles against the Rome. For example. muslim mercenaries were not very common for Catholic Europe - but still used occasionaly.Interesting, didn't know that. But then again muslims were part of Italy for a long time (I would be suprised if we didn't find similar uses of muslim mercs in Iberia) and the Holy Roman Emperor albeit an emperor, was not Roman and far from holy... :p

No problem Nike, I like historical discussions...I often get to learn something new from it. :hug:

[Finellach]

As far as I know Saracens were also quite frequent mercanries, bandits and pirates across whole Mediterranean for some time.