IGN rates KoH a mere 7.7 in overall

[Stefan]

The issue with 3D games is that you often get a lot of pixelation when looking at stills such as screenshots. This pixelation does not occur when the game is in motion because your eye just cant catch it. In addition screenshots dont show the animation (obviously). If you have actually played RTW you would see its graphic superiority. Having played RTW and the KOH demo i can easily make the claim that RTW has superior graphics, especially in unit animation.

[Cork2]

I very biased towards any "full 3d strategy" there the "our amazing next level 3d engine" rules over the gameplay itself. Which is the case in TW.

I look at RTW and see ugly units, like here
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/589390_20040930_screen010.jpg

Look at the command pannel - it's like 1996 is here again. Look at the chariots - 2 and a half polygons, look at the catapults - they are just plain ugly with wood texture from mid 90s. And this aint no my "poor" settings its gamepost "top noutch" system.

Look at campaing map, its nothing near KoH
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/589390_20040930_screen008.jpg

And such beloved close zoom like here
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/589390_20040930_screen004.jpg

or

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/589390_20040930_screen009.jpg

You can't possibly command your troops in this view, because you dont see ****. So from the gameplay perspective its totaly useless. But its so-called "interactive movies" approach dont care about gameplay, it cares about "wow" factor, like "wow you can see a face of every legioner, wow there is a 3d grass, wow flaming pigs".

Well obviously RTW has good ideas and feauters, but its not the point. All Im saying is that graphically KoH and RTW are very different because the basic gameplay design. And most of RTW feaures make the picture looks worse then it might be brining nothing to the gampley itself. And in KoH picture looks great, no matter what ign or anyother guy says. You look at the screen and you see BETTER picture.

PS
Move the camera in RTW in the same zoom and angle as in KoH battle view and make a screenshot, maybe it will look better, show me.

Well i have Rome Total war and let me tell you that it looks way better then on those pics. they must have had it on low settings. And that zoom during battles you don't have to fight like that you can zoom out if you want. Thats what i do i zoom out to comand my armies and zoom in to watch them fighting and watch the cavalry trample over the infantry, all with the scroll of a button. It really is a very good game and i recomand it that people try it out. But Knights of Honor is still far better.

[Arcador]

I've put ign away from gaming sites a long time ago. Only use to donwload patch or stuff if no other mirrors avaiable.

[William Blake]

A lot of people bring up the issue of zoom as a great feature and how good the RTW zoom looks, like Cork said:

And that zoom during battles you don't have to fight like that you can zoom out if you want. Thats what i do i zoom out to comand my armies and zoom in to watch them fighting and watch the cavalry trample over the infantry, all with the scroll of a button.


Guys you totaly miss my point. My point is that zoom as in RTW means nothing to gameplay but only adds eye candy. Then I hear you telling me how great it is to watch your men fighting in zoomin then you see swords on half a screen, I see EASY battle there you win with no skill involved. Because then you really strugle with the enemy you dont have time to go cinematic closeup and flying rotating camera. You have to watch all the battelfield all the time, you feel like loosing it all over the place, you have dozen of troboled spots to check out, so if you really fight you DONT possibly have time to enjoy close ups.

I think I play such games to be in command and win HARD battles not to watch how huge soldiers swing half-screen-sized swords over and over again. So my point is that no matter how good RTW closeup are they are useless from the game perspective. Movies still give you better picture of fighting men, PRGs give you way better graphics is you want to swing swords personaly.

Now, the far away zoom is good for gameplay because you can see more, but you pecious units are nothing but ants or even squares of color. Then you really need zoomout, you probably have HUGE battlefield which is good only in gamepublisher adds. The good game is not about who has bigger field, but if the field you have is ENOUGH no to think about it.

And there are some problems with zoomout though. Then you have free camera and a lot levels of zoom that you use you lose the sence if distance and location. Then you fly around zooming in and out you can't possibly judge the distances between units, everthing is "somewhat near" So in real hard games people tend to set camera in one angle and use few zoom settings so they can focus on the battle orders, not on flying camera around.

If you dont play battles, but strategy like many of us are you can't possibly compare KoH campaning view with 3d engine view like RTW. RTW europe looks like **** near KoH europe. Noone can object that. Economy, building, diplomacy screens and menues are extremely good in KoH so if you play strategy there is no question for you which graphics is better.

Which leads me to my main point:

There is nothing wrong with fixed camera and fixed zoom level like its done in KoH. For sake of commanding the battle its perfectly ok. And add minimap for strategic overview and you have full set you need to PLAY army commanding game.

In KoH I see a perfect example of balance between unit size in soldiers, soldiers size on the screen and the size of the battle field. You actually have units of soldiers who have formations and you see you men, but units are not like 200 men so they dont take 3 screens per unit to scroll. Soldiers size is just enough to see them as soldiers not ants and at the same time have view of battlefield. Unit speed are very good for these sizes and maps are large enough, make them 10 time more - and we will play forever. Make them without borders - you will never catch enemy marshal. make them smaller and you army wont have a free space to maneuvre.

For the fixed camera fixed zoom KoH look perfect. You can't possibly say that a screenshot look bad, its very sharp, colorfull and have a lot details. The only problem KoH have is fixed resolution which makes it pretty ugly on TFT monitors with higher resolution. Now thats a real problem and I will be first to admit it.


But again, Im obviousy totaly biased, right? :silly:

PS
Dont have a spellcheck at hand and mind that Im pretty illiterate.

[Lighthope]

In all honesty, I never once used zoom in R:TW when fighting a battle. Sure, I used it when I didn't need to control anything, when things were on "autopilot". But when it was time to take over, back out to my standard camera point.

Yes, zoom and camera are really cool eye candy. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, for KOH II, I would like to see 3D if only to get it to prenetrate NA markets. But as far as me personally, I'll never use it. (Though I do agree that the graphics could be a bit better. But I'm nitpicking.)

Lighthope

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[Stefan]

im not sure if you have actually played RTW but camera control is very smooth and simplistic. zooming in and out and adjusting camera angles all around its not hard and is often necessary as it allows you to get the best view for the fight. The problem with a fixed camera is that it makes it more difficult to see and select units when objects get in the way. that and if the view is uncomfortable for your control your still stuck with it.

RTW battles are not "easy" they are just easier to control then KOH battles (at least the smaller battles are) im prepared to make the claim that RTW battles are a lot harder then KOH battles.

[Sir Jurand]

Having played RTW(+ the KoH demo before that) from a couple of days already, I can compare RTW to KoH like M16 to an AK i.e. one is technologically fancy but has many defects(crashes into desktop almost every hour...grrrrr...) while the other is simpler but effective(i.e. not so system demanding but still can hook you up for hours).

And Im not even exaggerating for RTW!After I had those probs,I went to see if other ppl have had this and it was so common that a whole new forum was made for technical support on the crashing and freezing issue(not that anybody can give much support since ppl dont really know whats the problem).Looks like CA havent done their job(which is very disappointing since they postponed the release to sort such problems) but this then given a chance to KoH.

[Arcador]

Technical problems often are bad for a game if they exist.
Remeber the neverwinter nights? For multyplay moduls it was fun, but hell there was almost none support for ATI. You buy duble speeded card and the frame drops double. Also I think there are still bugs in multiuplayer that stay there FOR AGES. Bioware seems not to fix them in the patches and the people complaining are getting more and more. Temple of elemental evil 2 pages bug lists ? DId they made the final patch ? Maybe, but atari never released it. Now they work on ToEE 2.
It is pitty a game to be good but the fun of playing it to be ejected by some stupid technical error.

[Sir Turylon]

One thing that is missing in KoH that should have been put in. ;) multiple zoom levels in battle. Oh how I'd love to be able to zoom out just providing 50% more of the battlefield so I do not have to pause in mid battle to figure out the strategic layout of the land.

[DruStorm]

so kudos @ Black Sea and Sunflowers for making a game BETTERthan Rome:Total War. :go:

content > graphics. imho.

Ditto. Many kudos. :cheers: I spent one week paying RTW then went back to the demo of KoH because it was simply more fun. Can hardly wait for the full game so I can really get into it.

[DruStorm]

Having played RTW(+ the KoH demo before that) from a couple of days already, I can compare RTW to KoH like M16 to an AK i.e. one is technologically fancy but has many defects(crashes into desktop almost every hour...grrrrr...) while the other is simpler but effective(i.e. not so system demanding but still can hook you up for hours).

And Im not even exaggerating for RTW!After I had those probs,I went to see if other ppl have had this and it was so common that a whole new forum was made for technical support on the crashing and freezing issue(not that anybody can give much support since ppl dont really know whats the problem).Looks like CA havent done their job(which is very disappointing since they postponed the release to sort such problems) but this then given a chance to KoH.

Not surprised about the crashing. Shogun: Total War was unplayable with all its crash issues. However, I do have to say that I have had no crashes with either MTW or RTW. RTW is okay and absorping for awhile, but once you get it down it just gets boring and repetitive.

[KOSKnight]

pretty bad SS to show there, how about this one?

http://img53.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img53&image=8223.jpg

New Spartan Skin :)
http://img53.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img53&image=8224.jpg

Burning a city.
http://img53.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img53&image=8226.jpg
http://img53.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img53&image=8227.jpg

so kudos @ Black Sea and Sunflowers for making a game BETTERthan Rome:Total War.

good thing thats only your opnion :)

the Demo was ok but I got the picture of what is like and battle, battles were ok but nothin to get all excited about though. Id still like to get the game but hopefully they will release it to North America, soon if not then I guess ill have to order over the net.

Ive been playin for week now and still on my first campaign in R:TW, play Hard/Very hard, the battle arent that easy and can be very challenging, and you cant autocalc a battle really at all since you will most likely easly loose on VH battle mode diffculty, cause I have so far.

Also I have not yet once crashed to desktop while playin RTW I guess im just once of them lucky ones....

but once you get it down it just gets boring and repetitive
same thing can be said about KoH, once you get it down it will get boring and repetitive quick, oh wait..... that can be said about any game.

KoH campaning view with 3d engine view like RTW. RTW europe looks like **** near KoH europe
true, just think how big the campaign map would be if RTW was like that, probaly be way to big if the citys were to be able to be seen like they are in KoH. but doesnt look like crap compared to KoH.

Economy, building, diplomacy screens
like? i notice you can build economy buildings but you are given gold % over amount of time.. not that big of a economy. Building? I think either doesnt have any advantage over another, unless im thinking of the wrong view you think about. Diplomacy? didnt see anything special?

see EASY battle there you win with no skill involved.
explain? if I do have it right you sayin battles are easy in R:TW Id have to disagree unless you play on easy or moderate level or hell if you play hard aswell, and if your talking about Romans, then dont make me laugh!!!! they are the strongest faction ingame and there units startin stats are very good and alot better then most ingame.

The graphics in RTW are good for its type and very good for the amount of soldiers possible on battlefield at one time.

I understand if you bash R:TW or preferr KoH over it just because well, were on KoH site, why wouldnt you?

Maybe KoH devs can knock some sense into EA and have then release it in orth America soon :(

..also hopefully this doesnt turn into a stupid R:TW vs KoH debate like what happen to R:TWvsBFME its just dumb.