Family not important enough...

[lurking horror]

Something that bothers me with this game, lets say I my king has 6 children. Three sons and three daughters. All of them are married. When my King dies, the entire family disappears. They no longer have any value as royalty? Their should be at least room for one royal brother to stand in as heir if no children are produced by the new king. Also, I was playing a game where my king had three daughters. One of the daughters was married to the king of Spain. At some point, the country of spain was under entirely new rule, no longer bound by any previous agreements and my daughter had completely disappeared from the family tree. I assume that she was killed or some such thing. Fine. But this was my kings daughter! There should have been a major diplomatic message! The untimely death of a daughter could spark a war.

I mean seriously, I get a message that I can't ignore from several leaders when I'm marching troops through a country. Even if it's a country I'm at peace with! This is imbalanced. A major change to ANY member of the royal family is importatant news and should be treated as such.

Another problem with daughters: I married my daughter off to a king. That king died and my daughter was immediately back on the market. What? No designation for widower? Okay, whatever. But as an experiment I offered her up to marriage to what most likely was her own son. And he accepted! Even Medieval: Total War took into account this sort of thing. There are no repercussions for marrying family to family. This makes no sense. Marrying cousins to each other is one thing, when looked at in the context of the game. But parent to child? Come on.

And the last little rant about daughters. Why can't we use them in a religion? Sending unmarried daughters to convents was not uncommon. This could be used to boost religious ratings. One simple extra option and the usage of the princess is greatly increased. Even if it's just a small boost it would make a difference. The idea of the royal family is good, in of itself, but the structure of it is quite underdeveloped. I understand that major changes are unlikely at this stage, but perhaps some of the more minor changes suggested are still within the realm of feasibility.

[Largefry07]

Something that bothers me with this game, lets say I my king has 6 children. Three sons and three daughters. All of them are married. When my King dies, the entire family disappears. They no longer have any value as royalty? Their should be at least room for one royal brother to stand in as heir if no children are produced by the new king. Also, I was playing a game where my king had three daughters. One of the daughters was married to the king of Spain. At some point, the country of spain was under entirely new rule, no longer bound by any previous agreements and my daughter had completely disappeared from the family tree. I assume that she was killed or some such thing. Fine. But this was my kings daughter! There should have been a major diplomatic message! The untimely death of a daughter could spark a war.

I mean seriously, I get a message that I can't ignore from several leaders when I'm marching troops through a country. Even if it's a country I'm at peace with! This is imbalanced. A major change to ANY member of the royal family is importatant news and should be treated as such.

Another problem with daughters: I married my daughter off to a king. That king died and my daughter was immediately back on the market. What? No designation for widower? Okay, whatever. But as an experiment I offered her up to marriage to what most likely was her own son. And he accepted! Even Medieval: Total War took into account this sort of thing. There are no repercussions for marrying family to family. This makes no sense. Marrying cousins to each other is one thing, when looked at in the context of the game. But parent to child? Come on.

And the last little rant about daughters. Why can't we use them in a religion? Sending unmarried daughters to convents was not uncommon. This could be used to boost religious ratings. One simple extra option and the usage of the princess is greatly increased. Even if it's just a small boost it would make a difference. The idea of the royal family is good, in of itself, but the structure of it is quite underdeveloped. I understand that major changes are unlikely at this stage, but perhaps some of the more minor changes suggested are still within the realm of feasibility.
I completely argee with you! :go:

[Paladin|Lazy|]

Said it and will keep saying it - royal family needs to stack up and die off like your king does.

[Angryminer]

That would make the game amazingly complex, but I think I'd like it :go: .

Angryminer

[OSDSET]

i think there should be a royal tree and the king, queen, daughters,sons are highligted so you can work out whats goin on
so the king dies with no heir no brother so lo-and-behold it goes to the kings uncles daughters husband who is a prince of another country and you get a real good relation ship with that country.
but problebly too complex
cya

[Lighthope]

I mentioned in a previous post that daughters have virtually no value whatsoever in KOH and actually serve as an annoyance. Marry them off and you risk losing some of your land with no real corresponding benefit.

Major reworking required for royal family.

Lighthope

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[the knightly sword]

well i really agree that would give a boost and would be a great step into a perfect game.

[Largefry07]

Also another advantage to this Family Tree is that none of your knights will take the thrown and you will have to replace him.

[lurking horror]

By coincidence, I actually managed to get a younger brother to assume the throne when his older brother died.

Not wanting to lose him when his father the King died, I made him a cleric and had him governing my home territory. His older brother became King and he became a regular knight. Then, when his brother the King died without any heirs, he was elevated to King himself.

The unfortunate part was that my new King (the younger brother) was a juvenil(the much mentioned time problems). And I had married him off when he was a prince, then when he was King, I married him off a second time. Strange. As I said initially, its a nice concept, but man, it need some serious work.

[Lord Sam]

Another nice option would be if the King dies and there is more than 1 heir to the throne. If say the older sibling is bypassed for the younger, or if the younger has a high espionage skill or some bad trait, then there would be the possibility of a civil war. If the Kingdom has say two provinces then 1 favors each side. Also the Royal Court would also have to choose sides. Would be a great option to add to gameplay!

Also you could add the option of killing off your rivals and get the trait of Kinslayer. In this respect also, if a high espionage skill is present in a sibling, then there would be a chance they discover the assasination attempt and either revolt, or flee to a neighboring country where they could ask for assistance, or the Kingdom would demand they be placed on the throne and have a reason for invasion to set up the sibling as King and be that countries vassel....

[NoC Lord Fire]

I like the idea of Family Tree

[Haegemon]

I played with Aragon and married a daughter with the king of Leon. This was wipped out of the map but when my king died the unthroned king asked for his part of my cake. Fool why I had to give him anything if I had a heir for my kingdom.... I don't understand.

I'm agree with you guys.

[lurking horror]

A quick thought that may make marrying a princess more pressing. Why not add in a random elopement factor? In much the same way the king may decide to take a wife without permission, add in a factor where an unmarried princess might marry into another kingdom without permission. Thus giving said kingdom potential claim on your lands. This would make the actual marrying of princesses more necessary, as you may wish to make certain that your princess marries in the most beneficial way to you and not to one of your primary adversaries/targets.

And yes, I realize it could be irritating to suddenly have your princess married to the leader of the land that was just stolen from you by a famous rebel, and now to regain your land you have to sacrifice major amounts of kingdom power by attacking your relative by marriage, but that's the point. To make it more challenging and more realistic.

As it stands now, many players do nothing with the princessess of their own kingdom. A similar script already exists in the game, perhaps something like this could be incorporated without to much difficulty.

[Elvain]

To be honest, I disagree with you. It happened only in fairy tales and legends that royal family members married without permission(there was very few, if any, cases of it).
It depends only on you if you merry your daughter to the enemy who have just conquered your lands. If you want to continue fighting, why do you accept peace treaty with him? But there is a way. Send a spy to his court, hope he'll infiltrate as a spy andthen asasinate the prince your daughter has married.

IMO mariages should have higher impact on diplomacy: if you marry your daughter, your relations should be improved much more and should be more stable.

The most positive function of marriages is election of an emperor. If I recieved any votes, it was only from a kingdom with dynastic ties.

[lurking horror]

To be honest, I disagree with you. It happened only in fairy tales and legends that royal family members married without permission(there was very few, if any, cases of it).

True, and I did not mean to imply that it happened in reality with any great frequency or that it should happen in the game with any great frequency. But it is no less realistic than your king getting married without permission (not that I prefer that aspect, but it does exist in the game currently) And (as I mentioned previously) as it stands right now there is virtually no reason to marry your princess. As the random marriage factor is apparently already scripted in the game, and the result of a princess marrying an enemy is already scripted in the game, it seems a possibly easy to produce alteration to the game, as opposed to some of the potentially more complex ideas that would make marriage of a princess more worthwhile.

The knowledge that your princess may get married without your permission (as the king himself may) could potentially cause more players to do something with their princesses than let them rot on the right hand side of the family portrait screen.

And yes, I am aware that you can use princesses to gain treaties with enemies and then end the threat of ceding property through assassination (either the spouse or your own daughter), but with the alterations on spies due in the patch I think that may be less reliable. Furthermore, I have played the game and conquered every province without ever once having to use my daughters to gain treaties. But I have had difficulties having agreements or alliances with people who stood in my way of cementing the security of my borders.

It depends only on you if you merry your daughter to the enemy who have just conquered your lands. If you want to continue fighting, why do you accept peace treaty with him?

What I am suggesting is a scenario where a peace treaty is formed without my permission. Where I wish to continue fighting but the choice to do so will cost me Kingdom power. I know that it currently is only my choice to marry my daughter to an enemy. Which is exactly why I never do it. I never need to. Thus my daughters are useless. In which case, why have them in the game?

IMO mariages should have higher impact on diplomacy: if you marry your daughter, your relations should be improved much more and should be more stable.

I would have no problem with this, but as the game stands currently I would still never need to utilize this. I can conquer the game without it. There is nothing in your suggestion that actually makes the princesses necessary, and that's the flaw within the game that should be addressed. The suggestion I am making is actually a negative. You, as a parent, must find a marriage for your daughter. Either way you potentially suffer negativly, but how the choice you make impacts you remains your choice, and subsequently becomes a matter of direct strategy rather than of simple bonus that can be achieved through a number of methods. As it stands now, the princesses only serve as eye-candy.

The most positive function of marriages is election of an emperor. If I recieved any votes, it was only from a kingdom with dynastic ties.

This never seemed to make a difference for me. My votes almost always came from loyal vassals.

*edited because I am an idiot.

[Elvain]

You're right. There might be something to force you to marry your daughters and this is probably the only way.. or isn't?(ideas, anybody?)

But, you know, if the king chooses his wife on his own (without players permition), it's kinda different. Because HE is actual head of dynasty, he doesn't need enybody elses permition. But neither of his daughters is head of the dynasty, untill and of her parents or brothers is alive.

I would also support an idea of marying daughters to your own knights. It would be very worthy if you have no male heir and want some of you favourite knights to become new king.

[lurking horror]

My apologies. I edited my post while you were posting. Sorry.

[lurking horror]

I would also support an idea of marying daughters to your own knights. It would be very worthy if you have no male heir and want some of you favourite knights to become new king.

Absolutely. This was a factor I very much enjoyed in Medieval: Total War.

[Elvain]

What I am suggesting is a scenario where a peace treaty is formed without my permission. Where I wish to continue fighting but the choice to do so will cost me Kingdom power. I know that it currently is only my choice to marry my daughter to an enemy. Which is exactly why I never do it. I never need to. Thus my daughters are useless. In which case, why have them in the game?Is it possible to have peace treaty signed without wour will? It never happened to me. I always get notification if somebody wants to sign a peace with me.
In other had, if the kingdom where your daughter is married, declares war upon you, it should affect it's relations with all kingdoms



I would have no problem with this, but as the game stands currently I would still never need to utilize this. I can conquer the game without it. There is nothing in your suggestion that actually makes the princesses necessary, and that's the flaw within the game that should be addressed. The suggestion I am making is actually a negative. You, as a parent, must find a marriage for your daughter. Either way you potentially suffer negativly, but how the choice you make impacts you remains your choice, and subsequently becomes a matter of direct strategy rather than of simple bonus that can be achieved through a number of methods. As it stands now, the princesses only serve as eye-candy. I agree with you that there might be SOME kind of "penalty" if you don't marry your daughter...
but I would prefere some positive effect of daughters, read more below

This never seemed to make a difference for me. My votes almost always came from loyal vassals. really? it never happened to me (Usually, if somebody is at war with me when I am one of candidates, it's impossible to him to be among electors-he's smashed by my armies or spies :) -and you need to be at war before you make somebody your vassal) but I'll try this :go:

btw: I know this will not give you any reason for princeses to be in the game, but if they are and you marry them to kingdom with good or better relations, there is no risk of their claims

Ideas:
1) If you marry your daughter, your KP improves (not in a case of lost war)
2) if you don't marry her out, you can send her into some monastery to gain piety and books like cleric
she will be controlled from royal dynasty window
she can gain experience as well as knights and finally she may become saint(i.e. if, at the moment of king's-father's death, she's at lvl5, there will be about 30%chance for her to become saint-if you have good relations with papacy-catholic, or have independent church-orthodox) what will give you constant happiness bonus
3) your daughter married in another kingdom may become a spy-you can control her from royal dynasty window
actions:
I) asasinate king (medium-but very high risk of being caught=>casus belli=>war)
II) spread nostalgia in your former provinces (hard)
III) steal books (easy)
IV) spread your religion in random provinces (very hard)
V) improve relations-make the king happy :hug: (easy)
VI) ?-very brutal one -castration (almost impossible) disable giving a birth, very probable to lose influence (both sided-your influence on her-she wouldn't like to lose her children- as well as she can be caught and...your connections with her will be disabled)
VII) educate prince (hard, 2 levels per 1000 books), she educates her son, your king's nephew, in a way typical for your kingdom, what will make him very loyal to you. If successfull only lvl 1 - after claiming throne your nephew will be very loyal, asking you for advice before declaring wars, making peaces etc.
level 2 successfull - your nephew will become your puppet king, after his successfull claim.

any other ideas?

I guess that especially daughter-spy can be very usefull and powerfull weapon, what will make princesses very worthy persons in KoH. But will be also very dangerous for players

[Rodian]

One thing i think whoud be nice in the game woud be if the members of the royal family got a last name. Becous now its imposibel to seprat a member from the royal family and a knight who hase become king (if you dident now who wase who frome yhe begining). I also think if a knight becoms king he woud get those star point at those things the knight hase bean doin befor he became king. I mean i got a marshal who hade sourvived two genaeratins of kings and wene he becom king he got zero points at warfare bute two on economy. And Elvin i think your ides about the saint wase realy good.
Exuse me fore my teibel speling :(