View Full Version : House Rules for Harder Play
I originally posted this in the Modding forum, but I believe it belongs here...
Due to the fact we probably won't be seeing another patch....
I thought we could make some house rules for more difficult play:
1. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles.
2. Pick a small province and ally yourself with it. Follow it faithfully into all its wars.
3. Attempt expansion early in the game.
4. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies.
These are just some examples, but I think we can make the game more challenging by following some self-imposed rules. The AI puts up a pretty decent fight if you're a small nation fighting 2 larger ones, but it never seems to want to land a knockout blow to my country. Any suggestions?
wellbored
10-01-2005, 18:19
how about limiting the ammount of marshalls even more ?
or limiting the ammount of saves u can do :)
Anguille2
11-01-2005, 08:02
1. You may also select that time goes on while you have a battle...You will have to focus on the main battles only.
2. Play with honor: never declare war and if, only to countries who do not share your religion.
3. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province
4. Same as 2: don't send spies, just keep one at home for protection...spies are for dishonorable knights.
I don't think that keeping spies will make the game more challenging, for me it's much more challenging than sending 3 marshalls to conquer 1 castle.
so my suggestion:
1. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls
2. If you are allied with 2 nations who are at war with each other, break your alliance when asked first, no matter if the one who asked you is at war with entire world.*
3. play honourably as suggested: when your vassal is attacked, declare war at the attacker, no matter who he is.
4. If your ally or vassal is having problems and losing land and you can't send him any military help because you don't have eny marshall close, grant him the closest province you own
if you have your marshall close to his lands, go and help him
5. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province
I support those suggested by you:
@Anguille: Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (my note: do this at least once in kings life)
I wouldn't agree with limiting players strategy, it depends on each of players what does he like. IMO it's far worse to have 9 marshalls than have 5 marshalls + some spies and clerics
NOTE: I don't think this is necessary to do when you own up to 8 provinces
*I really hate when I'm the most powerfull nation and all top kingdoms are at war among themselves and I am aliied with all of them without ANY problem
Anguille2
11-01-2005, 11:28
I also use only a maximum of 3 Marshals. In need i may ask someone from the royal family to become a Marschal in order to defend my main domain but afterwards i'll send him back on his trade route.
Largefry07
12-01-2005, 02:27
I3. play honourably as suggested: when your vassal is attacked, declare war at the attacker, no matter who he is.
What if the attacker was one of your vassels?
Also:
1. Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy.
2. Start out as a vassal.
3. Don't use spare princes for knights.
4. Don't build every defencive structure in your provs.
5. When you go to war don't completely distroy the nation. Leave at least one or two provs for him.
What if the attacker was one of your vassels?
1. Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy.
2. Start out as a vassal.
3. Don't use spare princes for knights.
4. Don't build every defencive structure in your provs.
5. When you go to war don't completely distroy the nation. Leave at least one or two provs for him.
to the question. Then leave it to them as overlords did :)
I can agree now only with 4 and 5 since first 3 are limitations for your strategy. If builder and landlord has no place in your strategy, why to use him? (starting as vassal will disable you to play for many kingdoms. Also I don't see beggining of the game as problem. It's never easy in the beggining, even with Byzantia in early.
Also when playing small kingdom, you don't have enough money, so you can't afford the comfort of not calling your princes as knights. I could agree with it in later stages (after you get 10+provinces)
I think we should express what of those house rules do we support to make some codex of those rules. Writing them down is nice, but sometimes some of us may not agree with them, so creating KoH fair-play rules codex would be nice :)
EDIT:
I also forgot to say that I support those by Irish:
1. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles.
2. Pick a small province and ally yourself with it. Follow it faithfully into all its wars.
4. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies.
Anguille2
19-01-2005, 10:36
Ok...we mentionned the 5 rules...i suggest 8:
Here's my suggestion of rules with which i can live with:
1. Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy (from Largefry07). I add there shouldn't be more than 3 marshalls.
2. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles (by Irish)
3. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish).
4. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province (by Elvain)
5. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls (by Elvain)...actually it would be difficult if you follow rule number 1.
6. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (do this at least once in kings life) (By me and Elvain)
7. Play with Honor: don't declare war if it's not justified (spy or else). Stick to your allies during all the game (always have at least 2 of them) and help them as much as you can.
8. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish)
Ok...we mentionned the 5 rules...i suggest 8:
Here's my suggestion of rules with which i can live with:
1. Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy (from Largefry07). I add there shouldn't be more than 3 marshalls.
2. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles (by Irish)
3. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish).
4. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province (by Elvain)
5. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls (by Elvain)...actually it would be difficult if you follow rule number 1.
6. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (do this at least once in kings life) (By me and Elvain)
7. Play with Honor: don't declare war if it's not justified (spy or else). Stick to your allies during all the game (always have at least 2 of them) and help them as much as you can.
8. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish)yes, that's good. Only 8 and 3 are the same :smile:
since I'm not very convinced about 1, I would accept it to find common agreement-conclusion-rules.
I have also one little note to 7. (...) and protect your vassals as much as you can
and another note to our idea of crusades (6.)
what for muslim, pagan and orthodox nations?
muslims: attack Spain or Rome(following the same key as catholics)
orthodox: keep being at war with at least one muslim country, keep attacking muslim Egypt(to "restore old Byzantia) or make your own crusades against Rome or Egypt to unify christians and restore Roman empire
pagans: make pagan crusades to the Baltics (todays baltic republics+Scandinavia) while following the same key as all others (at least once in kings life)
...so version Anguille2/Elvain 1.02:
1. Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy (by Largefry07). I add there shouldn't be more than 3 marshalls.
2. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles (by Irish)
3. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish).
4. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province (by Elvain)
5. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls (by Elvain)...actually it would be difficult if you follow rule number 1.
6. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (do this at least once in kings life)
muslims: attack Spain or Rome(following the same key as catholics)
orthodox: keep being at war with at least one muslim country, keep attacking muslim Egypt(to "restore old Byzantia) or make your own crusades against Rome or Egypt to unify christians and restore Roman empire
pagans: make pagan crusades to the Baltics (todays baltic republics+Scandinavia) while following the same key as all others (at least once in kings life) (By Anguille2 and Elvain)
7. Play with Honor: don't declare war if it's not justified (spy or else). Stick to your allies during all the game (always have at least 2 of them) and help them as much as you can and protect your vassals as much as you can
This are my rules to make my games harder:
1. Never demand gold & provinces
2. Never use merchants
3. Kill always spies, marshalls from kingdoms at war
4. Accept only peace treaties with vasall-offer
5. Never declare war at anyone
Anguille2
19-01-2005, 11:05
mmmh...didn't read again i guess :rolleye: ...so 6 general rules plus one optional (for me):
These would be basic general rules in order to compare results...if someone doesn't want to use merchants he's free to do so.
1. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles (by Irish)
2. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish).
3. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province (by Elvain)
4. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls (by Elvain).
5. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (do this at least once in kings life) (By me and Elvain). Muslims: attack Spain or Rome(following the same key as catholics); Orthodox: keep being at war with at least one muslim country, keep attacking muslim Egypt(to "restore old Byzantia) or make your own crusades against Rome or Egypt to unify christians and restore Roman empire; Pagans: make pagan crusades to the Baltics (todays baltic republics+Scandinavia) while following the same key as all others (at least once in kings life)
6. Play with Honor: don't declare war if it's not justified (spy or else). Stick to your allies during all the game (always have at least 2 of them) and help and protect them as much as you can (Elvain and me).
7. (optional) Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one landlord, cleric, marshall, builder, and spy (from Largefry07). I add there shouldn't be more than 3 marshalls.
So what do you think? :cheers:
Payne, I am much more for having each knight occupation at the court than havbing no merchants.
Can you imagine small kingdom with 1-2 provinces without a merchant? it's impossible to do anything without a merchant in the beggining of the game.
PS I support rule 7.(having each knight type), or I would retransform it:
have each of those: marshall, cleric, merchant, spy + at least one builder or landlord. However this is limioting players strategy(I personally would accept it, but what about those who like strategy of 9 marshalls?
+ I would add Paynes 3.
as rule 8. Kill always spies, marshalls from kingdoms at war(Payne) + never kill spies of countries you have some agreement with(trade, non-agression, alliance)
1. Never ask for peace unless you have lost a province or fought at least 3 battles (by Irish)
2. Never Demand gold or provinces from allies (by Irish).
3. never attack a town before you plundered at least one village in the province (by Elvain)
4. Don't invade one enemy province with more than 2 marshalls (by Elvain)...actually it would be difficult if you follow rule number 1.
5. Start your own Crusades: send an army far East, very far from the home province (do this at least once in kings life)
muslims: attack Spain or Rome(following the same key as catholics)
orthodox: keep being at war with at least one muslim country, keep attacking muslim Egypt(to "restore old Byzantia) or make your own crusades against Rome or Egypt to unify christians and restore Roman empire
pagans: make pagan crusades to the Baltics (todays baltic republics+Scandinavia) while following the same key as all others (at least once in kings life) (By Anguille2 and Elvain)
6. Play with Honor: don't declare war if it's not justified (spy or else). Stick to your allies during all the game (always have at least 2 of them) and help them as much as you can and protect your vassals as much as you can
7. Kill always spies, marshalls from kingdoms at war(by Payne) + never kill spies of countries you have some agreement with(trade, non-agression, alliance) (by Elvain)
8.(optional) Have a knight representing every kind of knight in your court. Ex: Have at least one cleric, marshall, merchant and spy + at least one landlord or builder (by Largefry07). I add there shouldn't be more than 3 marshalls.
Payne, I am much more for having each knight occupation at the court than havbing no merchants.
Can you imagine small kingdom with 1-2 provinces without a merchant? it's impossible to do anything without a merchant in the beggining of the game.
Yes, i know it is hard at beginning. But this is the point, isnt it?
I played with this rules the seljuks at late period and i conquered whole europe.
Ok, i had exiled the start-marshall (+10 gold per tick), but i managed it. :)
Anguille2
19-01-2005, 11:37
About rule number 7. I am not so keen on killing spies and marshalls...i could agree that no ransom would be asked therefore that they should be released after some time. I just can't, even i a game, order someone to be killed if it's not on the battlefield. :angel:
the point isn't to mae the game harder in the beggining. It's hard enough(untill you have 8 provinces and more)
the point is to make game harder after you have 8+provinces, after you become a "superpower", not to make you lose when you start with Bohemia, Normandy or Armenia(1-2realms nation)
Seljuks have 3 or 4 provinces, don't they, it's much easier to earn money from home sources than from 2 undeveloped provinces :go:
No, the seljuk have in the late period only 2 provinces: Rum and Kurdistan.
I dont think that the game is hard at the beginning, not even at hardest game-mode.
The development of the provinces is randomly calculated by the game.
Maybe i am such a good player. :biggrin:
I will try those other country, but i dont believe that it will make a difference.
I think it will be easier then a muslim country.
Catholics and Orthodox have got a money-bonus, havent they?
Angryminer
19-01-2005, 11:53
Hm. To make the game harder during gameplay. Wouldn't it be an option to lower tax-profits through scripting so the player is forced to raise crazy taxes? The player would have to raise war taxes to keep up any war which would soon lead to a collapse of any bigger empire due to rebels.
Marshall-pricing could be raised too, to make wars even more expensive.
This is just an idea. That's why I allow myself to go offtopic.
Keep on your good work. :go:
Angryminer
@Payne. maybe I have such problems with money because I subconsciously follow another very important rule
9. don't raise your Kingdom power over +3 when you have less than, say, 5 provinces
what do you think about this
@Payne. maybe I have such problems with money because I subconsciously follow another very important rule
9. don't raise your Kingdom power over +3 when you have less than, say, 5 provinces
what do you think about this
imho opposite to ur previous post
the point isn't to mae the game harder in the beggining. It's hard enough(untill you have 8 provinces and more)
the point is to make game harder after you have 8+provinces, after you become a "superpower", not to make you lose when you start with Bohemia, Normandy or Armenia(1-2realms nation)
'don't raise your Kingdom power over +3 when you have more than 5 provinces' (imho better, because harder in late-game)
or something like this:
don't raise your Kingdom power over +x when you have more than y provinces
x | y
1 | 15
2 | 12
3 | 9
4 | 6
5 | 3
Anguille2
19-01-2005, 13:53
I agree with this...the bigger the kingdom the lower the power to compensate.
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