The Mongols

[Odin]

Will the Mongol invasion of 1242 into Hungary and the threat posed to Christendom be represented via events or a playable nation of Cumans?

The historical effects of Mongol incursians West are debatable but it certainly is applicable to the period of time the game is set in.

Odin

[golddigger]

The Mongols had at least as much effect on the common psycy of Eur-Asia as it had a real military/culteral effect. But so did the Otomen-Turks and the Moors. And their rule lasted longer with effects that still live on. Even the push to find a western, water rout to find spices; that led to the 're'-discovery of the Amc.'s; was a result of them. The wars betwen Christian Surb's. and Muslam tarrest; Albania-Cosibo-ians. is but a continuation of the same straggal against the Otomen invation. ;) Even some of our common phrases are hold-overs from their rules of parts of Eur. (i.e. to 'let the cat out of the bag' is traced beck to the Moors' control of a 'pork-loving' Spain.) I would think that they all (Mongols; Otomen/Turks; and Moors) should; some how; be part of the game. :cheers: {sorry if my spelling is less then it should be.}

[Odin]

Originally posted by golddigger
The Mongols had at least as much effect on the common psycy of Eur-Asia as it had a real military/culteral effect. But so did the Otomen-Turks and the Moors. And their rule lasted longer with effects that still live on. Even the push to find a western, water rout to find spices; that led to the 're'-discovery of the Amc.'s; was a result of them. The wars betwen Christian Surb's. and Muslam tarrest; Albania-Cosibo-ians. is but a continuation of the same straggal against the Otomen invation. ;) Even some of our common phrases are hold-overs from their rules of parts of Eur. (i.e. to 'let the cat out of the bag' is traced beck to the Moors' control of a 'pork-loving' Spain.) I would think that they all (Mongols; Otomen/Turks; and Moors) should; some how; be part of the game. :cheers: {sorry if my spelling is less then it should be.}

I didnt notice any spelling errors, your point came accross. I disagree with your assertion of the cultural effects of the Ottomen turks to find a push for a spice route. The Mongols were in Europe a century before the Ottomans and it was the Mongol devestation of Kiev, Baghdad, and crushing victory against the Hungary calvalry that spurred the Pope to send John of Plano to learn more about these people. Along the way he noted the lives and traits of people under Mongol rule and how there was a degree of freedom that allowed for cultural and economic prosperity.

Those notations were a catalyst for the Polo's to move East and attempt trading, not the Turks. I cant dispute the Moor effect on Spain but Eastern and Central europe and to the Pope the Mongols were the catalyst for so much change and fear. Most information was transfered via the church and the church portrayed the Tartars as gods punishment. The Ottoman's had a profound effect on European culture and a lot of societal changes happened as a result of it, but that came far later, really after the Mamelukes defeated the Mongols. The Mongols had almost wiped Islam out with its incursions into Persia and indirectly effected the culture and warfare tactics of the middle east to the degree that in fact it could be argued that the middleeastern influences you refer to could be a result of the Mongols initially.

But will they be in the game? and will they be playable? If there is a developer or mod out there please reply.

Odin

[Frank Fay]

Hey mates! Can we postpone this discussion a bit? It is for us a bit too early to discuss.

Sorry guys!

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Odin
Will the Mongol invasion of 1242 into Hungary and the threat posed to Christendom be represented via events or a playable nation of Cumans?

The historical effects of Mongol incursians West are debatable but it certainly is applicable to the period of time the game is set in.

Odin

And you are...a teacher?:p

[golddigger]

Originally posted by Odin
I didnt notice any spelling errors, your point came accross. I disagree with your assertion of the cultural effects of the Ottomen turks to find a push for a spice route. The Mongols were in Europe a century before the Ottomans and it was the Mongol devestation of Kiev, Baghdad, and crushing victory against the Hungary calvalry that spurred the Pope to send John of Plano to learn more about these people. Along the way he noted the lives and traits of people under Mongol rule and how there was a degree of freedom that allowed for cultural and economic prosperity.

Those notations were a catalyst for the Polo's to move East and attempt trading, not the Turks. I cant dispute the Moor effect on Spain but Eastern and Central europe and to the Pope the Mongols were the catalyst for so much change and fear. Most information was transfered via the church and the church portrayed the Tartars as gods punishment. The Ottoman's had a profound effect on European culture and a lot of societal changes happened as a result of it, but that came far later, really after the Mamelukes defeated the Mongols. The Mongols had almost wiped Islam out with its incursions into Persia and indirectly effected the culture and warfare tactics of the middle east to the degree that in fact it could be argued that the middleeastern influences you refer to could be a result of the Mongols initially.

But will they be in the game? and will they be playable? If there is a developer or mod out there please reply.

Odin


Ofcorse you are right in all that you say. My main focus is that they should; some how -- in some way; be included in the game. I look at the disruption of the trade routs by the Ottomen; as well as their barberisum in eastern Eup.; as having a lasting effect even to today events in the area. Also the contrasting, more humain & enlightened rule of the Moors in Spain/Protugal. I feel that Spain & Portugal might not have become the early calonial powers they became if not for the enlightened influences of the Moors' rule. I also feel that the rule of the Ottomen repressed development of eastern Eup.. I think you are also right that in many ways the Mongols had a more powerful & lasting effect beyond their time in history, on most of the; then; known world. My hope is that all 3 influences are reflected in the game in some playable way.

[Odin]

Originally posted by golddigger
Ofcorse you are right in all that you say. My main focus is that they should; some how -- in some way; be included in the game. I look at the disruption of the trade routs by the Ottomen; as well as their barberisum in eastern Eup.; as having a lasting effect even to today events in the area. Also the contrasting, more humain & enlightened rule of the Moors in Spain/Protugal. I feel that Spain & Portugal might not have become the early calonial powers they became if not for the enlightened influences of the Moors' rule. I also feel that the rule of the Ottomen repressed development of eastern Eup.. I think you are also right that in many ways the Mongols had a more powerful & lasting effect beyond their time in history, on most of the; then; known world. My hope is that all 3 influences are reflected in the game in some playable way.

Hey Golddigger,

Hope this message finds you well. Let me say first that often when I post the way I phrase things can come off as condesending or a put down. If I came off that way it wasnt intended.

Your points about the moors in spain in portugal I concede, particularly thier influence on the later colonial powers the two nations became.

As to having the Turks, or the Mongols in the game, well Frank asked to put the chat on hold so I will honor his request.

When we get a bit more info it will be fun to debate with you. Until then cheers...

:cheers:

[DruStorm]

:blob: Well, this is a fun topic. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that no one could build a house higher than a Turk on horseback. Doesn't anyone know if this is true?

[Elewyn]

I guess that this thread (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=13824#post13824) should be closed and continue here. I'm almost sure that Golden Horde will be in game. Have you seen map extension. If Khazars will be in game, there's no doubt about Golden horde...so Mongols