View Full Version : Non-Aggression Pact vs Alliance Pacts
maladominus
22-06-2005, 03:34
Today I was playing Aragon. I had a Non-Aggression Pact with Serbia.
Then later Serbia cries out for help and asks me to aid them against an invading Hungary. I refuse to help because Hungary is very very big and has many allies.
Why did my Kingdom Power drop?????
I was NOT IN AN ALLIANCE with Serbia. Why did my KP drop?
In an Alliance, I understand that dishonoring an Alliance is very dishonorable and causes your KP to drop. But a Non-Aggression Pact is supposed to be different, right? A Non-Aggression Pact simply states that you and the other nation promise not to attack each other.
Illuminatus!
22-06-2005, 04:52
Did you have a marriage relation with them?
The other thing I can think of is that some kingdoms, when you have the highest possible relationship with them ("Harmonious" or "United" - I don't remember which it is), and then do anything dishonourable towards that relationship (only specific exampleI remember is declaring war on them :knight: ), your KP drops two or three notches.
maladominus
22-06-2005, 11:01
Did you have a marriage relation with them?
The other thing I can think of is that some kingdoms, when you have the highest possible relationship with them ("Harmonious" or "United" - I don't remember which it is), and then do anything dishonourable towards that relationship (only specific exampleI remember is declaring war on them :knight: ), your KP drops two or three notches.
Yes, I did have a marriage relation with them. My Prince was Married to their Princess. But there was no Alliance between us. And the relations were "Friendly"
so it is this: game knows it as Dishonor Marriage.
It is fair. You have to take care of your relatives as well as allies :wink:
crpcarrot
22-06-2005, 14:37
i had a massive 5 point drop in KP for claiming land unsucessfully on a kindom whoes princes was married to my prince !!!
havent worked out kindom points yet
Angryminer
22-06-2005, 16:59
When you claim a province from your ally and he denies (and it comes to war due to bad relation) you actually break the alliance and declare war. That's why the kingdom power drops.
Angryminer
Lord Boreal
22-06-2005, 17:30
-5 ****s a bit though doesn't it? :)
Angryminer
22-06-2005, 17:34
-5 for braking an alliance is tough? What do you think would happen to current germany's reputation when the chancellor suddenly decides to break all EU and NATO-related treaties? Everyone would arm for the third world war!
I think -10 are about realistic, but -10 would be tough.
Angryminer
crpcarrot
22-06-2005, 19:13
yeah its fair enough i guess.
still very uncertain when an another kindom asks me to do something cos sometimes when i agree i lose KP and other instances it happens when i disagree. guess its to do with alliances ect but does the screen show u current status when other kindoms initiate meeting? ... hmm i think it does on the right side but unfortunately it doesn't show the status with the kndom in question for example if germany asks u to attack france the screen doesn't show u what u diplomatic status with france is, does it?
i think thats my problem i forget what agreements i have with whome and keep losing big doses of KP.
I would have liked to see a results section as you hover over the yes and no buttons to show you at least some of the reprecussions before you click. As it is I have to wrack my brain to remember the alliances already in place. It sometimes seems easier just to tell them all to go to :angry: since you will be marching on them soon enough anyway.
Angryminer
22-06-2005, 19:40
You can still use the political map while the audience-window is open to view your relations.
Angryminer
You can still use the political map while the audience-window is open to view your relations.
Angryminer
But not if you are being asked to follow your alliance. Then you cannot do anything except click accept or decline.
Basically towards ya'lls questions, if you are having an alliance invoked, or when the screen pops up without you opening it and where that is all you can click, clicking no will drop like 3-6 KP because it's an alliance and/or royal wedding invokement (which you as a player cannot do, the royal invokement) but in all of them if you accept you stay same or gain good with country asking, but lose KP equivalent to country that you accepted to declare war on or break relations. Trade agreement will be like 1, pact of non-aggression 2, and alliance 3, with more for royal ties and like 1 more if you have a decent or better relationship with them. Hope this helps. :go:
Angryminer
23-06-2005, 16:34
You can not shove the audience-window away, but you can still use the political map behind it as far as I know (you can still click the political-map-button and scroll around the map).
Angryminer
DangerousMinz
23-06-2005, 18:57
One interesting tactic I foudn yesterday when playing...
I was looking at one neutral party who had 4 provinces. Not a great deal overall, but they were 'inbetween' some of the provinces I had. I would have been nice to have these 4 provinces, in order to join my 2 provinces together (as well as obviously having 4 move provincess).
I looked at the 'rumours' for the neutral party, and found their king was reported to be dying, fighting in battles and had no heirs! So...I offered marrage between their princess and my prince. They agreed, after a bit of gold persuasion.
So then I didnt have to wait long before their King was killed in battle, and said 'yes' when inheriting their land. I actually didnt loose any Kingdom power, since they were not allies with anyone (mostly at war actually) and had no vassels. Easy way to get some provincess without really trying.
Needless to say, I pay more attention to the 'rumours', looking for old kings with no princes!
maladominus
23-06-2005, 22:52
One interesting tactic I foudn yesterday when playing...
Needless to say, I pay more attention to the 'rumours', looking for old kings with no princes!
You can always scan for Old Kings, and you will know which heirs they have if any. It does not have to be rumors.
You simply approach them in Diplomatic Court window. Then you "Offer Marriage". When you do this, you then select which of your heirs is willing to match with which of their heirs. The action is not final until you have clicked on "Agree"
So if you do this, sometimes you will find that the only possible match is your Princess marrying their Old Bachelor King. This is perfect! When you marry them, your Princess will become queen.... and since she is marrying directly, their Old King will not have any claims to your kingdom. However, if their Old King dies without heirs (e.g. he dies in battle before he and the queen have children)... this means that the "Queen" ascends to the throne temporary, and she will allow you to have claim on their kingdom :go:
crpcarrot
24-06-2005, 11:56
thats a good use of the princesses
a little away from the topic what is the full relationship with a vassal. as far as i can see he just pays tribute hes even fighting with my allies and is one of the most respected kindoms :eek: he doesn't even agree to any of my offers or attack my enemies whats the point in having a vassal except for the income of course.
maladominus
25-06-2005, 00:19
thats a good use of the princesses
a little away from the topic what is the full relationship with a vassal. as far as i can see he just pays tribute hes even fighting with my allies and is one of the most respected kindoms :eek: he doesn't even agree to any of my offers or attack my enemies whats the point in having a vassal except for the income of course.
Yes, you are correct. In this game, a vassal only does one thing, he pays you tribute.
In Europa Universalis II, the vassal system is MUCH BETTER. In EU2, a Vassal cannot form any alliances except with its Master. And the vassal can only have royal marriages with its Master, no one else. In other words, the vassal is closely held by the Master Nation. Of course, the EU2 Vassal can also choose to break vassalage, and declaring war upon the Master is the only way to free itself, which causes a big drop in Stability.
crpcarrot
27-06-2005, 11:44
yeah the vassal system is a bit lame cos they keep fighting with my allies. also it seems a big falw that even when u r gib and stron u cant tell another nation to stop fighting with with one of your allies or vassals.
it is a great game but with i think the diplomacy is really very limited.
no ability to counter offer for one
and the above is also a big ..well if not a flaw an oversight
it should have been included.
i find it really anoying when veak allies start a fight with one of my stronger allies and then invokes alliace and i lose whatever i do (or dont i cant remember :D )
got a question
how do u get the other stronger nations to vote for u at the election.
what factors ahve to be present/affect the outcome
my first campaign but from the few elections i've had i've sort of figured out
1. u need to be powerfull
2. have good realtionship with other voting nation
what else do i need?
to be elected, also marriage or alliance(or other pacts - the stronger pact, the better). Also religion can influence it.
In my last game there was one more factor: Golden Horde declined election of Hungary becasue it shared same religion with kingdoms GH was at war (crusades were called one after another against GH and pagan Courland)
PS: to vassalage thing: I think that at least 2 level vassalage would be nice:
one would be somehow soft (either smaller tributes or being vassal only in some provinces -like England was towards France) with ability to have own foreign policy, alliances, marriages etc. and then a second level with total subordination: no foreign policy for the vassal, but also possibility to invoke vassalage: if either overlord(oppresor) or a vassal is attacked, he could ask the other one for help...
to be elected, also marriage or alliance(or other pacts - the stronger pact, the better). Also religion can influence it.
In my last game there was one more factor: Golden Horde declined election of Hungary becasue it shared same religion with kingdoms GH was at war (crusades were called one after another against GH and pagan Courland)
PS: to vassalage thing: I think that at least 2 level vassalage would be nice:
one would be somehow soft (either smaller tributes or being vassal only in some provinces -like England was towards France) with ability to have own foreign policy, alliances, marriages etc. and then a second level with total subordination: no foreign policy for the vassal, but also possibility to invoke vassalage: if either overlord(oppresor) or a vassal is attacked, he could ask the other one for help...
Well the opressor shouldn't be able to demand the little one because he holds the power in my opinion.
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