Norman unit stats

[JustinianII]

Anyone else think the Normans unit has some bugs? They cost 1000 gold, require chain mail workshop, are described as having good armor and a big protective shield... and have 0 defense. Zero. They are barely better than standard swordsman.

Shouldn't they have maybe 10 or 15 defense?

[maladominus]

Anyone else think the Normans unit has some bugs? They cost 1000 gold, require chain mail workshop, are described as having good armor and a big protective shield... and have 0 defense. Zero. They are barely better than standard swordsman.

Shouldn't they have maybe 10 or 15 defense?


Logic says that if an unit requires an armoury to build.... then it should have some Defense/Armor protection, at least.

I would give them a +10 defense, but no more. Why? because Normans already have a big advantage, they already have a very considerable +3 morale bonus. This means that Normans are very strong infantry because they show no fear, and they can fight to the death until the job is done, just like their Viking cousins.

[conquestare legionare]

But still it isnt very realstic and its very unlogical. just listen a "chainmail" , and a "large shield". and the efforts to build swordsmith and chainmail worshop is worth 17 in defense for the efforts. melee units which has big shields are always well defended its very easy to block since the shield cover a large bit of the upper body. they can even block in coming arrows if they intake a good postion.

[JustinianII]

Stupid question: What do I use to edit the units.pak file?

[conquestare legionare]

http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=3255

download pakman from the thread(above) . you can edit things with it but its not offical so problems can occur.for further instructions ask angryminer or elvain both very experienceed mod creaters. check the mod forum part.

[Der Grosse]

There are many units in this game which have inadequate armor! Pronoias, Steppe Cavalry, and Crossbowmen – these units require Armory, Chain mail workshop and the Pronoias particularly, even require Scale Armorer, but nevertheless have no armor at all! Zero! This is definitely a big mistake!

Pronoias (Bulgarian Kingdom Special Units) are described as Medium Cavalry and it is impossible that they are not armored at all! Pronoias should have 15 – 20 armor points!
Same situation with Steppe Cavalry - “but only lightly armored” they said, but where is this light armor? They should have at least 5 or 10 armor points!

Also, there is geographical lapse, like – they place lake Ochrid (in Macedonia), but forgot to place the biggest lake in Europe – Balaton (now in Hungary)! Strange, but fact! :confused:

One more thing - Cataphracts require Spear Maker?!?!? Why? They are armed with swords, not spears! They have no spears at all! Also, they have same armor (Scale armor) as Pronoias, but unlike Pronoias, Cataphracts have good armor points! Any ideas why? Probably not!

to be continued .....



Best regards,
Der Grosse

[maladominus]

There are many units in this game which have inadequate armor! Pronoias, Steppe Cavalry, and Crossbowmen – these units require Armory, Chain mail workshop and the Pronoias particularly,


And also Jinetes. Yeah, the Spanish Jinetes require an armoury to build. Also if anyone looks at the avatars for the Jinetes, you will see that the Jinete soldiers wear metallic mail armors as they ride on their horseback.

As it is now, Jinetes have 0 armor.

I would give them at least Armor 5 or 10.... as they are considered "lightly armoured FAST cavalry". Giving them anything more than 5 or 10 armor is silly, because that would mean they are wearing too much armor and would no longer be FAST cavalry.

Steppe cavalry? They are described as only wearing very light weak armor, and one of the FASTEST units in the game, and very mobile. Maybe armor defense of 5 only.

[maladominus]

Anyone else think the Normans unit has some bugs? They cost 1000 gold,


Normans do not cost 1000 gold. They cost only a very cheap 500 gold if you are playing as the Normandy Kingdom =)

If you are playing as another kingdom, then when you conquer Normandy, you can build Normans, but they cost double. :eek:

[Der Grosse]

I agree with you! Something should be done!

[maladominus]

I agree with you! Something should be done!


I already made my own mod for the units.txt file.

If you have PakMan and know how to use it, I will email you the text file. Then you just install it into your game, and you are good to go.


My changes I made:

1) Jinetes -- gave them Armor 5 (equal to very light armor)

2) Normans -- gave them Armor 10

3) Pronoias -- gave them Armor 15

4) Steppe Cavalry -- gave them Armor 5 (they dont need any more than that, they are already superb fast killing machines)

5) Camel Riders --- I removed the armoury as a requirement to build camel riders. What the heck. Camel riders were just a bunch of Arab Bedouins riding a camel cavalry in the deserts of North Africa. Since when did they go around putting armor plating on their camels???? By removing the Armoury requirement, I made it easier for the Muslim kingdoms to build them. Hopefully the AI will build camel riders more often now. :)

6) (regular) Crossbowmen --- gave them Armor 5 only. This puts them equal Armor rating to the Men-At-Arms and the Heavy-Swordsman.


7) Peasants, Slavonic Bowmen, Slavonic Axeman, Bowmen, Axemen --- their morale was changed from -2 to -1. This improves their combat ability slightly, so that the AI performs slightly better. We all know that the stupid AI loves to use these cheap units ALL the time. Hopefully this helps the AI a tiny bit.


Everything else is left untouched. Let me know if you want me to email you the mod file. It is a single text file, but you still need PakMan to "install" the file to your game.

Sorry I do not know the history of cataphracts using swords versus spears. However even IF they did use swords instead of spears, I am afraid to change their weaponry, because maybe it will crash the game. You see, the cataphract units ALREADY have a graphical artwork and animations for using their spears/lances. So it may not be too easy or sensible for me to change the weaponry on the units. If you want "bigger" modeifications, you should ask Elvain or Angryminer. They are better experts at modding.


Further discussions of this should belong to the Mods forum instead, IMHO

-M