Jerusalem observances

[orko]

Hey guys,

Jerusalem has no kingdom units. I found that kind of weird. I'd expected them to at least have men at arms or something...

Also, they are unable to gain piety due to the fact that they are a different religion (christian vs muslim), and this makes conversion difficult, as you need 1000 piety to perform them.

I was playing a game as Jerusalem, and it was kind of tough to take my first castle with only axemen...

[Elvain]

yes, I figured this out and so gave Jerusalem special units: Templars, Hospitaliers, crusader cavalry and crusader crossbowmen to give it at least this advantage.

I'm not sure about the piety. When I once played it I made successfull conversion before conquering first catholic province for sure, but I don't remember how. Maybe a cleric is the way?

[Largefry07]

You may have had a king that had a good religion trait. Therefore you can gain peity quicker and convert provs with you cleric.

[maladominus]

yes, I figured this out and so gave Jerusalem special units: Templars, Hospitaliers, crusader cavalry and crusader crossbowmen to give it at least this advantage.

I'm not sure about the piety. When I once played it I made successfull conversion before conquering first catholic province for sure, but I don't remember how. Maybe a cleric is the way?

Clerics give piety but very slowly. Buildings and structures also give piety but I am not sure if this occurs unless you are in a same-religion province.

Lastly, I know that Chruches/Mosques *only* give piety when they are in province of your (same) state religion. If province is not same as your state religion, then your provincial churches do not give piety. They do however, still give Books. :)

[maladominus]

Hey guys,

Jerusalem has no kingdom units. I found that kind of weird. I'd expected them to at least have men at arms or something...

Yes I agree. They should be the same as the other "Crusader states" that conquered Byzantium ..... have Men-at-Arns and Feudal Knights as kingdom units. Templars is also a good idea.

Too bad there is no Malta on the map!!! Knights Templar of Malta eh? =)

[Illuminatus!]

That didn't happen till after the equivalent of the in-game Middle/before the in-game High periods, though, right?

[Shane]

Too bad there is no Malta on the map!!! Knights Templar of Malta eh? =)

Actually, it was the knights Hospitaller who were eventually on Malta. And I agree that Malta was in a period too late for the game, but Rhodes, which they occupied after the fall of Acre (last crusader city), might be alright for the late period.

[Mircoslavux]

problems with Jerusalem

I started second time as Jerusalem (hard level) and lost the game ..:angry:

how is the best tactic with jerusalem?
I have no soldiers only these "crepie" peasants and I do not want to be a vasal of Trebizon...
So I baricaded in my castle and took a alliance with a mighty Almohads, but they did not send any army, which helps me.:bash: and so trebizon starved me to dead...hm...
any clue?

[Elvain]

do you play with a mod or without?

if you'd use HR mapchanges, Jerusalem is in much harder political situation (provinces are muslim etc.) but on the other side it has much better units setup. Hospitaliers, templars and crusader crossbowmen are kingdom specific units for this kingdom

[Mircoslavux]

no , I'm playing just vanilla...:eek:
as said, I started already twice, and they defeated me very soon, oki I will start to be a vasal of Trebizon, I will build me strong and then claim independence...I see no other choise:sad:

[Elvain]

it seems there is no other choice.

the situation of Jerusalem is very complicated as it is surrounded by kingdoms of diferent religions

[Mircoslavux]

yes, second problem is a piety...there I can not increase the power and convert the province....:angry:

[Elvain]

yes, you must wait for the king's piety bouns or capture some catholic province.
That's one of disadvantages. I think Jerusalem should have this disadvantage.

But there should be (in the second patch) some choice how to "buy piety" maybe through donation?)

[Mircoslavux]

I think, Jerusalem is the best challange to start in the whole game....
it is the most difficult possibility ...:eek:

[Elvain]

I think that Jerusalem and Teutonic order, but Jerusalem as the harder one...

and with HR mapchanges I'd say Lombardy in the high era is even harder

it is pre-set to be at war with Holy Roman Empire that surrounds it from 3 sides

1 province Lombardy against 18 province HRE

[Mircoslavux]

the time to play the mods did not still come to me...
but I will do later...

[Elvain]

mapchanges don't change AI behaviour. It just change availability of units, and map (provinces names, kingdom names and distribution of provinces to kingdoms)

[Lord_Nick]

A few thoughts/suggestions (I realize some of these may not help you in the early stages of the game .. but if you survive long enough, they might help.):
Maybe the developers intentionally didn't give Jerusalem any kingdom units to show what a difficult position they were in. Maybe it's supposed to represent how most of the Crusaders cleared out after the conquest and those that stayed behind were hard pressed to rule over an unhappy populace. They couldn't rely on recruiting home-grown troops, and could only be propped up by European adventurers.
What effect does building a church have on your piety? Don't you get an automatic +1 regardless of the religion?
What about putting a Cleric on the province? A 0-star Cleric may not produce any piety, but they might at 2- or 3-stars. The production of books and piety are not linear. Some "stars" have no effect, but others give a nice bump.
If you have lots of gold, you can buy Mercenaries from your own province or others.

[Elvain]

the problem in Jerusalem is that you hardla have enough gold. You can't afford to raise taxes because if you do, your province/s start to revolt as they are of diferent religion.

2 and 3:
both influence books. A cleric and a church both give you book bonus. Also in Palestina the church is always built so you don't need to build it.

The only chance to have higher piety is to have a king with good religion bonus providing you some piety

[Lord_Nick]

Thanks for the reply Elvain ... I dug out my test results from an Orthodox Cleric in an Orthodox province:

No Cleric: 2 Books, 15 Piety
0-star: 3 Books, 15 Piety
1-star: 4 Books, 15 Piety
2-star: 8 Books, 15 Piety
3-star: 8 Books, 18 Piety
4-star: 9 Books, 18 Piety
5-star: 9 Books, 21 Piety


Now looking only at the changes:

No Cleric: - Books, - Piety
0-star: +1 Books, - Piety
1-star: +1 Books, - Piety
2-star: +4 Books, - Piety
3-star: - Books, +3 Piety
4-star: +1 Books, - Piety
5-star: - Books, +3 Piety


So you can see, you get a book-writing bonus at 0, 1, 2, and 4 stars, with the biggest bump of +4 at 2 stars.

You also get two separate piety bonuses of +3 at 3 and 5 stars.

I bet this would hold true for a Catholic Cleric placed on the Muslim province of Jerusalem. He will start producing "some" piety at 3-stars and even more at 5-stars.