KoH remark

[ZonerX]

I visted this page for the first time today, and what I immidiatly thought was "Hey look a reworked Lord of the Realm 2". Seriously, the resemblance is too great. I went thru most of the screenshots, and as far as I can tell, the general idea is pretty much the same thing as LotR2 but then with newer graphics and of course a few "we needed to add this or it won't sell" options.[LotR is too outdated even a total graphics rework wouldn't sell]

So then I read over the feature list and so on, which makes me believe they took LotR2 as starting point then sprinkled over some Stronghold building options and finished it off with some Heroes of Might&Magic[maybe a bit less] skill development for the troop leaders.

Sorry to say, but I dun think that's really creative at all.
True, sunflowers/max design did work on the ANNO games, wich was pretty creative.[if you never played Conquest of the new world{doubt much ppl know that game anywayz, but it was released 2 years before ANNO}]

Sure, I'll probably end up buying this game, just cause I liked LotR2 and Stronghold and this fits right between those 2.
But it's kidna disappointing to see a gaming company take the idea of another companies prequel[LotR2] to beat their sequel Lord of the Realm 3.

[Elewyn]

Do you think anybody can create totally new game without any influence of those already existing? If yes, I wanna see it. Btw, developer is BlackSeaStudios.

I never play either of those games, but I really doubt that in Stronghold, LotR II. or Heroes you have diplomatic options like in KoH. This is at least one of examples I made up now.

Everytime when you have an idea where to put your next step, you do it by influence of your previous steps and steps of all others you can see. Everyone does that. If you want to create something totally new, there are two possibilities:
1 you do what you wanted and then you're a liar.
2 you do nothing.

PS: Read forum and I hope you'll see this is more than compilation from some already existing games

[ZonerX]

Originally posted by Elewyn
I never play either of those games, but I really doubt that in Stronghold, LotR II. or Heroes you have diplomatic options like in KoH. This is at least one of examples I made up now.


Well in LotR you did actually have threaties and "bribe" options among a few other, as far as I remember.

Originally posted by Elewyn
Do you think anybody can create totally new game without any influence of those already existing? If yes, I wanna see it.

Well, the problem is that that's something really rare these days, since most of it has been done already. But I have a few games at home wich were definatly original at the time they were released.

[Jorghan]

Well, I don't think this game seems to be that close to LOTR2. I could think of other games that KoH seems to resemble more than LOTR2.

But we'll have to wait and see what happens.

But the most important thing here I think is that in KoH battles will be FAR MORE realistic than they were in LOTR2. In LOTR2 I felt the main part of the game was to handle the economy really, while KoH will have less of that.

[Elewyn]

Well in LotR you did actually have threaties and "bribe" options among a few other, as far as I remember. Pleas tell me the others. I really want to know. Royal marriage, tribute-paying state?
I really want to know what are resources possible in those games. Please, verify wahat you aer trying to say.

On the other side. What is that great on remaking games into 3D, rotating around batlefield, "driving the view through battlefield" with final effect that you are totally unable to have overal view of battle?
[Well, the problem is that that's something really rare these days, since most of it has been done already. But I have a few games at home wich were definatly original at the time they were released. This is, not in all points, of course, but in some is. For me and for most of members here. If not for you, you are free to play "those fantastic 3D games"

[ZonerX]

Originally posted by Elewyn

On the other side. What is that great on remaking games into 3D, rotating around batlefield, "driving the view through battlefield" with final effect that you are totally unable to have overal view of battle? This is, not in all points, of course, but in some is. For me and for most of members here. If not for you, you are free to play "those fantastic 3D games"

Ehm, now your kinda changing subject.
Haven't even said anythingbout the 3D vs 2D aspect.
Besides, it's wellknown that strategical and pretty much simulations are better played in 2D then 3D, although if done properly full blown 3D battles can be pretty cool.

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by ZonerX
Ehm, now your kinda changing subject.
Haven't even said anythingbout the 3D vs 2D aspect.
Besides, it's wellknown that strategical and pretty much simulations are better played in 2D then 3D, although if done properly full blown 3D battles can be pretty cool. I am not. This is only a new subject. You ar the one, who's not answering. You critisized this game from no invention, I critisize other new games from 3D (not so well done) forcing into strategies.

*waiting for your verification of what you said before*

[ZonerX]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Royal marriage, tribute-paying state?
I really want to know what are resources possible in those games.

it was possible to force countries into paying tribute, yet not offcially. royal marraige, nope, but they had to add something to KoH and marriage/sucession has been done before in The Guild/Europe 1400.

Recources were gold, cows, grain, wood, iron ore and
stone. But Stronghold has at least double of that, so it's really not that important what kinda resources they put in KoH.

But in order to make a nice political game they should put in luxuries.

[Angryminer]

It's not negative if a game melts the best from 10 games together into a new shiny game. That's what we all waited for!
And with those nice ideas like knight/king-skills, kingdom advantages etc. etc. it really seems to be a great game.

Angryminer

[Elewyn]

it was possible to force countries into paying tribute, yet not offcially. royal marraige, nope, but they had to add something to KoH and marriage/sucession has been done before in The Guild/Europe 1400. And alltogether, as realistic as possible? where was it? btw. Exchange land for money, so usefull and used in midage? you can see lot of diplomatical actions here (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131&highlight=diplomacy+espionage) or somewhere else on forum

But Stronghold has at least double of that, so it's really not that important what kinda resources they put in KoH.
But in order to make a nice political game they should put in luxuries.
Which resources has?
And yes, luxuries are in, what was possible in midage...

Hey, visit this (http://knightsofhonor.net/) and then you can see what is and isn't newly invented. OK?
day/night cycle, posibility of almost all historically accurate nations, map of all europe to be conquered. Maybe it already was somewhere, but not together to be that realistic.

[Frank Fay]

Well I dont want to comment on your post , this is rather silly than serious...
However if it is your opinion, fine with us. But that comment is like "what was first, bird or egg?"...

[Elewyn]

"what was first, bird or egg?"...
Btw. I know that. :D
:scratch:
bird, of course;)

[Angryminer]

Egg.
-> Dinosaurs
-> Fish

Angryminer

[Elewyn]

Egg.
-> Dinosaurs
-> Fish

NOOOOOOOO!!!
My whole world crushed. My belief failed :bash: what to do now???

[Nadine Knobloch]

Regarding all these comparisons a wise man once told me something:

"You can invent a new ball game, with completely new rules and a neverseen principle...it will always contain the ball itself."

[ZonerX]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
Well I dont want to comment on your post , this is rather silly than serious...


So your calling well based comparison silly?
You should never read any reviews on your game then, cause chances are big that game magazine's will come up with the same things if their reviewers have been around long enough.

Originally posted by Nadine Knobloch
Regarding all these comparisons a wise man once told me something:

"You can invent a new ball game, with completely new rules and a neverseen principle...it will always contain the ball itself."

Regarding to that a wiseguy once told me:
"If you steal one idea from one person, your copying, if you "borrow" them from a few, it's called research"

[Angryminer]

So, what do you want?

Try to make a positive statement.

Angryminer

[Caedes]

ZonerX

You really believe a concept like LOTR2 but a lot more extensive gameplay and unmatched graphics wouldn't sell???

I showed the KOH site to people who play the newest FPS games and they couldn't wait for it to come out cuz they wanted it.

The LOTR2 concept of gameplay doesn't get much better. You can extend it by making more options but the gameplay it'sself is sublime.

This game renews and old and almost lost form of gameplay which many loved when LOTR2 came out. Remember, LOTR2 is one of the best selling games ever!

I have always been searching for games with seperate resourcemanagement and those are rare. The games that are there are mostly lowbudget or failed to adopt the gameplay.

I think this game could well be the best sequal to Lords of the Realm 2 that anyone could have immagined. A classic in it's own right.

Just my 2 cents...

[greywulf]

This thread is a rather pointless observation. I understand constructive comparison, what are good ideas and not, but you do it in quite a negative way ZonerX.

We all take ideas from other people in our lives, our thoughts, our actions... whatever. Blacksea is making a medieval game, and well, there's not too much you can do that's original considering it's based on history. I think they have enough of a concept to call it their own, incorporating features that Lords2 either didn't have or couldn't have based on technology of the time.

What original thoughts are you thinking of? Can you tell us what kind of game you are expecting? Should they add dragons to make it original? But wait, that's not original...

Should we all just praise lords2 as the mighty medieval game of all time and slap copyright lawsuits on any other developer who tries to do a medieval game? Should it be illegal or something to develop medieval games because they are all based on the same ideas? It's pretty ridiculous to call its a lords2 clone... and I'm pretty sure anyone can make the same comparison to lords2. Lords2 wasn't a shiny new original idea itself if you look back at some of the old DOS games like Castles and so on.

[Frank Fay]

So your calling well based comparison silly?

Based on what? Certainly not on facts, as you neither have played Lords3 nor KoH.


You should never read any reviews on your game then, cause chances are big that game magazine's will come up with the same things if their reviewers have been around long enough.

Well when it comes to that day then they have played the game and not writen an own interpretation based on loose information.

Look, I dont have anything against someone's opinion but they have to be true and they have to be based on facts. None of them are yours...

Only because we are set in medieval we are no rip-off of Lords2 or 3. Or only because we have castles we stole from Stronghold... That is really ridiculous... Same as you would say any RTS stole the idea from the DUNE 2 game...