cavalry

[Elewyn]

Nice to see first cavalry unit moving.

I also really appreciate that it is light cavalry, because that was something I missed before.
My question is How is it with cavalry. Light cavalry everywhere and in certain regions also some special cavalry, but not everywhere (some realms will have only light cavalry available) or heavy cavalry for every realm (like "heavy infantry" and peasants in every realm)???

I ask because I can't imagine no of already existing cavalry units in northern Italy, western Balkans, Baltic region or Scandinavia.

I expect some turkish cavalry in extension, maybe one another eastern-european (not only Boyars, but probably some Lithuanian?) and some "ordinary" for the west (for Scandinavia, Croatia, Slavonia, and Northern Italy, where imo is no place for feudal cavalry) just my point. Any comments?

Btw. What type of cavalry units do you think is on this screenshot (http://www.knights-of-honor.net//english/screenshot.php?screenshot=0095&all=0095|0094|0093|0092|0091|0090|0089|0088|0087)? ?

[Heretic]

Yes, horse moves good. In some games horses move not natural, like machines. His movement are so easy and so airy, his legs touches a ground so easily. :cool: Nice to see good artists work!:go:
About cavalry. In the Great Duchy of Lithuania were special kind of horses who named "zemaitukai". I don't know how it write in English, maybe "samogitians"? Or "Samogitians' horses"?:lol: :lol: These horses were not tall like other horses, but they were very persevering.
My question to this thread is: will be "zemaitukai" in KoH? :scratch:
P.S. I want they would be in Samogitia!

Great screenshot! I don't think the cavalry in it are light cavalry. Maybe they are heavy cavalry or Byzantine cataphracts? But that city where they are isn't Byzantine, I guess.

[Bora]

i also like the animations. i only wonder why the infos says that the cavallary has no armor,... i definitly see a helm,... does that helm not count to armor? :confused:

[Siena]

Originally posted by Heretic
Yes, horse moves good. In some games horses move not natural, like machines. His movement are so easy and so airy, his legs touches a ground so easily. :cool: Nice to see good artists work!:go:
About cavalry. In the Great Duchy of Lithuania were special kind of horses who named "zemaitukai". I don't know how it write in English, maybe "samogitians"? Or "Samogitians' horses"?:lol: :lol: These horses were not tall like other horses, but they were very persevering.
My question to this thread is: will be "zemaitukai" in KoH? :scratch:
P.S. I want they would be in Samogitia!

Great screenshot! I don't think the cavalry in it are light cavalry. Maybe they are heavy cavalry or Byzantine cathaphracts? But that city where they are isn't Byzantine, I guess.

yes, native Prussians and Balts in Latvia also had similar horses, from what I read.
Lithuanian cavalry was special in that regard, that they used a little bit different tactics and were armed a bit differently from others.
I am basing this on Eric Christiansen's book - "Northern Crusades", and also same is repeated in other history books.
They say, that Lithuanian cavalry was comparatively ligtly armored - chain mail, and used swords and spears. Spears were used for throwing from close distances. These were short, throwing spears.
Also, Christiansen states that Lithuanians fought using mongol tactics - so harrasing flanks of the enemy, and using unexpected attacks.
Since Lithuanian horses were smaller and more sturdy that western ones - Lithuanians could make very quick and far reaching raids - going through territory that others could not - denser forests, marches...

It was not unusual for Lithuanian raids to reach Estonia, Novgorod - sometimes going through frozen Baltic sea. Although "usual" raidind was done in Livonia, Prussia, Poland and Rus.

[Heretic]

Yes, I agree. The rider in a larger not-animated picture has not only helm, he has a leather (or iron) mail. Maybe in a game he will not have any bonuses in his defense.:confused:

[Haegemon]

I got a better question. :D

Here goes: Cavalry stops to atack o can ride over the enemy?

[Elewyn]

Should move further...

Have you seen return of the king? Srtike of Rohirrim on Pelennor fields :D

Just a guess. But who can stand attack of a horse with heavy rider/knight sitting on him. If you won't run, they should smash you. And I think war horses, used by knights were trained to do so. Light cavalry probably should have diferent tactics, but to stand to fight seems not so good to me. It lower your advantage you have as a rider.

But, probably Heretic should tell us, she seems to know more about horses :D

Btw. On the screenshots they look like cataphracts, it's very likely they are. But as you said. In a western city?

[Haegemon]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Should move further...

Have you seen return of the king? Srtike of Rohirrim on Pelennor fields :D


I was just thinking in something like that. :D

[Siena]

:) well, movie is not exactly a good argument ;)

[Heretic]

Well, and what do you want to know more? About light cavalry tactics? I'm not a strategist... A few things about cavalry; maybe I will satisfy your wishes:
1. Rider, with a horse, who are armoured with leather armour or he haven't any armour (only saddle and curb), will not attack heavy infantry or infantry with long spears.
2. Light cavalry is perfect to break enemies lines, especially archers. Archers haven't no defense against horses (they shoot arrows, but they have only short sword, but they can't make a heavy toll for strong and quick horses).
3. If light cavalry attacks infantry, horses must have a thick armour on they breast; they have more chances to defend they muscle from swords.
4. Important thing: I hope Berber horses will not be white colour, because they are most often brown or black.
5. Who have seen Frisian horses? They were perfect in Medieval times.
6. Will Arab horses be armoured with a big, colourful, made from small iron parts saddles? Will they noses be konvex?
7. Will terrene have some influence for light and heavy cavalry moving? I know cammels is more fitted in desert or in arid climate than horses, who need more water.
8. One more thing about horse armour. Horses, when they are directed to infantry, could have a belly armour, because swordsmen can strike to it, dissect gut. If not, the strap of saddle will unstring and rider will plunk down like a sack of potatoes. :rofl: :rofl: :viking:

[Frank Fay]

The Light Cavarly is the cheapest / weakest mounted unit in the game. Wait until you will see the other mounted units in the showcase...

They have horse armor, real plate armor, armory etc...

And yes Mrs. Heretic :cool:, the belly will be protected. In fact if a huge Tiger Tank unit, like the Cataphract will come across you ...the last thing a poor pikeyboy will think is "let me put that pike in the belly", he would throw it away and ruuuuuun....

[Siautas]

Originally posted by Elewyn

I expect some turkish cavalry in extension, maybe one another eastern-european (not only Boyars, but probably some Lithuanian?) and some "ordinary" for the west (for Scandinavia, Croatia, Slavonia, and Northern Italy, where imo is no place for feudal cavalry) just my point. Any comments?



tnx mate good point:cheers:

I had some similar thoughts when was exploring units in KOH site. It will be shame if Lithuania will not have any special unit. because Lithuanian/Samogitian units were really diferent from Western European units or even polish or russian.

Agree about Zemaitukai horses.

Zemaituka, Zemaitukai, Lithuanian landrace (Samogitian, Zmudzki (in Polish), Zhmud' ou Zhmudka (in Russian) : a tough pony of western Lithuania, used as draft, packhorse or riding horse. Very ancient origin : descended from the Mongolian Wild Horse, with Arab influence, and outcross on the North Swedish Horse since 1963. Though he is the result of crossbreeding , he is very rustic and frugal, renowned for its staying power and strong legs and feet. According to some authors, composite of robustness from Mongolian and elegance from the Arab, of black, gray, dun or bay color with primitive markings. Average height 130 – 150cms ( 13 - 15 hh). On the edge of extinction.

MORE ABOUT LITHUANIAN’S HEAVY WEIGHT HORSES

Zemaitukai (Lowlanders)
Zemaitukai is a very old breed. About 700 hundred years ago they were mentioned in the source books. They are universal horses used for farm work, riding and tourism.
In the Middle Ages they were the best fighting horses in the world. Zemaitukai are 128-142 cm tall, the chest is about 165-180 cm wide, the length of the body is 136-148 cm, a handbreadth is 17-18 cm, its weight is 360-420 kg. Most often they are grey, black or bay.
The horses are resistant to infections, non-fastidious about forage, they are long-lived, strong and obedient.
Thanks to enthusiasts and breeders there were 110 pureblooded horses in Lithuania in 2001. As the number of the horses is very small, this breed is protected as invaluable genetic fund.

U can find a picture of them in this link http://www.tiho-hannover.de/einricht/zucht/eaap/descript/1549.htm or http://www.arkliomuziejus.lt/Viskas_apie_arkli/breeds.en.htm

It's interesting what will be answer of gamemakers about Lithuanian units in KOH. It will be really stupid if all Lithuanian riders will be Boyars :confused: :( ?

[Heretic]

Good information about zemaitukai, thanx,Siautas!
;)
Horses' height is taken to horse's withers. To imagine really zemaitukas's height we should add and his head and neck height, about 60 cm. So, it's about 2 metres. In fact, the most tallest horse had 198cm beside his withers! Of course he wasn't zemaitukas, he was shire-horse named King; shire-horses were nurtured in England, they are very big and have long hair around their pasterns. Modern- day heavy horses are bigger than heavy Medieval horses. But enough about shire-horses, let's back to the thread.
I guess you know that bloodstock Arab horses were hybridized with other horses (and zemaitukai too), to make them more persevering.
There were no stirrups to VIIIa. When Frankish Empire existed, stirrups were a good devise to aid armoured riders to stand in a saddle. They could fight in a saddle standing, because they had a lodgment - stirrups.
:cool: :)