the pagan religon

[kiri_hacker]

I dont know what the pagan religon actually is but in KOH i have found out some info in the internet site it says: "If the Player chooses a Pagan Kingdom, he receives no Piety Bonus and his gold income is limited."Thats not all not only is your gold limited but you also lose 30% gold . Every province you take turns itno pagany short after. Thats not all you dont have a cleric at all...but the best part is increasing the kingdom power is much cheaper and it doest cost piety ..Taking over provinces more quickly is cheap as well so i guess some things we just have to find out by our selfs....:)

[Largefry07]

Also you have no books as a pagan nation and therefore can not educate any of your knights.

[Doux]

... but of course there are mods to fix that bug.

I really like to play pagans.

[kiri_hacker]

well you may have books but only buy building a liabrary :)
I personaly like the pagan religon i think its cool how you can convert provinces and it doest cost you anything and the fact that its a bit more of a chalange to lose 30% from your gold to keep your religon

[Elvain]

I have created a "temple" pagan equivalent of church and muslim mosque.

And all mods that use this new building enable pagans to have books also through temple.

As far as I know the temple is used in "Glory of God" and "Name of The Rose" mods, as well as "Fun mod" by Xuca.

and of course it is in "Holy Rome" mod since 1.3 version

[kiri_hacker]

Im afraid of using mods because i dont like changes ...

[Lord_Nick]

I played the Golden Horde all the way through as Pagans, and there are a few modifications to regular gameplay due to paganism:

-Only way to gain books is from Libraries and Universities. May or may not be important to you, depending on how you fill out your Royal Court.
-Lack of Churches/Cathedrals eliminates need for one of the Kingdom Advantages (Cathedral Bonus)
-Only way to eliminate nostalgia is through extended periods of complete peace with foreign kingdoms; however, your Marshals will be fighting a lot of rebels and loyalists during this period.
-The 30% penalty is taken off total income, not net income. This can be a big problem if your Kingdom Power unexpectedly plummets. I broke an agreement or two with an Ally/kin (I forget the exact details), and my KP swung from +5 to -4/-5. The only way I could raise enough money to increase my KP was to pillage the Papacy, but it was a losing battle. I ended up having to raise a War Tax, which spawned rebellions throughout my empire. Was a nice challenge to overcome.

[Dobber]

I am currently playing as the Golden Horde and the main issue I have run into is the nostalgia problem. You have to wait at peace for what seems like an eternity for the nostalgia to completely disappear. What I have done to help quicken my pace of conquering Europe is to decide on about 12 provinces to conquer, conquer those, then make peace with anyone I am still at war with and allow those to lose their nostalgia. I use the time to improve their infrastructure to match my my method of development. I also start scheming for my next dozen province take over.

[Tempest]

... but of course there are mods to fix that bug.
It is no bug, it's concept.

[Largefry07]

I too am playing as the Golden Horde. My biggest problem isn't nostalgia, it's its geography. The provs. are far to big in the eastern part of the Europe. When you have two war fronts going on and need to rapidly move troops from one side of your kingdom to another can prove difficult at best. Nostalgia adds to this probelm by rising up rebels to tie up your armies even more so. I've tried to create armies with nothing but horsemen, but the horsemen squad are too small and can take heavy losses.

[Dobber]

I also filled one army with nothing but cavalry. mongolian, steppe and light cavalry(later added feudal knights once I captured a province where they could be produced). This army's job was nothing but rebellions and was trained thus(full 18 star Marshall). I rarely had full squad losses with it. Then the unthinkable happened, I had a King die with no heir and my rebellion master took over as King. I hate having to train a new Marshall to that level. One consolation I guess, is he had 3 Princes, the 2nd and 3rd Princes I made Marshall's and started training them to quell rebellions, I kept using the King in that position as well and discovered that both my Princes gained experience from each others battles and also from the "Old man's" battles. I had them up to around 6 stars before the King died.
I reckon I am doomed to live with nostalgis until the end of this one, I can't even by peace for long enought o get rid of the nostalgia(it didn't help that my spy Marshal got crowned King of the Papacy and I had him hand over their 13 provinces to me). Totally ruined my reputation with all Catholic Kingdoms.

[Tempest]

Well, you can always try and live in peace for a while. That would allow for the nostalgia to ebb away. If that is too boring for you... well too bad, choose a real religion. :P

[Doux]

It is no bug, it's concept.In my concept, it's a bug :wink:

I like the Pagans as they were in vanilla KoH, but still I have changed them: the AI could not really deal with -30% income and I like to have some Pagan kingdoms in the game even after several hours.

Or did somebody actually experience the Golden Horde (for instance) become one of the greatest/most-powerful kingdoms and stay there?

[Tempest]

Maybe BSS wanted to bring some realism in. You know, no Pagan state survived in reality either. :)
It is also a nice way to boost the difficulty. People keep complaining about KoH being too easy. Those should play an (unmodded) Pagan state. It is still not that hard, but at least it's more challenging than with another religion.

About the bug/feature thingy, it's quite irrelevant how you like to call it. A bug is a malfunction, something that was not intended to happen. The Pagan religion works as the developers intended it to work, therefore it is no bug. Period.
If you like it or not has nothing to do with it.

[Lord_Nick]

I've played the Golden Horde all the way through and conquered the entire map.

In my Epir game, the Cumans, Lungansk, and the Golden Horde are all Pagan kingdoms in the Russian Steppes, with the Cumans regularly in the top 7. I doubt they will ever achieve real greatness since they are constantly at war, and have a lot of rebellions/nostalgia.

When I played as the Golden Horde, I had 4-5 Spies and 3-4 Marshals. Each Marshal led a cavalry-only army and had the same skill set as the others:

Strategist .. for land speed
Admiral .. for sea speed
Enforcer ... to gain income from pillaging
Iron Fist .. to suppress internal rebellions
Tactics .. for battling more powerful/numerous enemies
Fanatic .. morale bonus against different religions


What kind of skill set do you give your pagan Marshals?

[Largefry07]

Depends on what kind of army I has. If it is an army to deal with rebelions then he has an all cavalry units.

1.)Cavalry Master: to gain experience
2.)Strategist: Speed
3.)Dread: To break the enemy's will to fight (VERY EFFIECIVE)
4.)Tactics: To build a fort and hack away at the enemy's numbers
5.)Iron Fist: To help stop rebelions (sometimes I use another one of the three below)
6.)Healer: To keep my squads from dissappearing/Endurance: Helps them fight on the battlefield/Night Stalker: Break the enemy's will to fight at night

If the army is to take towns and fight regular battles then I have meduim to heavy infantry (in a Pagan case the Roman infantry) and archers.

1.)Sword Mastery: To gain experience
2.)Archery Mastery: To gain experience and reduce losses from friendly fire
3.)Strategist: Speed
4.)Tactics: To build a fort and hack away at the enemy's numbers
5.)Dread: To break the enemy's will to fight (VERY EFFIECIVE)
6.)Endurance: Helps them fight on the battlefield/Night Stalker: Break the enemy's will to fight at night

[Dobber]

For rebellion specialist I use an all cavalry squad(this is playing Golden Horde of course)
1) Strategist-naturally to increase the speed in travelling to the rebellion
2) Cavalry Master-to increase their horsemanship
3) Iron fist-increase their skills against rebellions
4) Tactics-so they can fortify a camp and take less damage whenever possible
5) Manoeuvre-to aid in their ability to move guicker
6) Archery master-increase archery skills and decrease friendly fire casualties(early on other than lightcavalry, your only other cavalry options are armed with bows or bow and sword both)
Optional 6) Dread-Once I am able to hire feudal knights and/or cataphracts or other non archery cavalry, I do not include archery units and then train the specialist with Dread to weaken the enemy morale.
2nd optional 6) Enforcer-If I have low capacity for income, I will use Enforcer to make one squad a pillager to boost income.


For castle attacks I use an army of 5 archery units and 4 hand to hand units(the strongest mix I can get at whichever stage I am in) and then 4 seige units of course.

1) Strategist
2) Engineering
3) Tactics
4) Archery master
5) Ballistics
6) Siegecraft

If I start as a nation that is on one of the islands, I leave off Archery master and use Admiral instead.

Largefry, aren't you glad I didn't buy your game now!

[Largefry07]

Largefry, aren't you glad I didn't buy your game now!

I guest. I've gotten back into it here lately and have enjoyed it. Though with school starting and football going on I doubt I'll have much time to play it. Oh well. Come Novemeber when I'm done with football I might rediscover it, or another game.:cheers:

[MannofWar]

:wink: How could you find a better game Then KoH :wink: