Suggestions for the second patch

[kevincompton]

Since it now seems we will finally be getting one lets post some ideas for new features and any other suggestions. I apologize if there is a thread like this already. Either way, a suggestions thread should be stickied.

Anyways, aside from the numerous issues with AI which we all know about, and kindly restate them here so that its clear, suggest features you may have in mind.

For me whats most important is that the AI start really using the siege weapons and start building castle walls and all that and that in siege warfare they act more effectively, both in attack and defense.

[kiri_hacker]

:scratch: did they say when will the patch be released?
BTW my idea is that the computers should be smarter in battle and they schould think better about spending their cash and building buildings also the money wich you get from trading should be a little decrased

[kevincompton]

definately, i think money should much harder to get than it is, at least for the player. Decreasing the benefits of trading drastically will force the player to have to impliment other means, like kingdom power, etc.

Also I was thinking about Piety, it doesn't have much value right now and caps out really quickly. That should also be harder to get and more a part of the cost of kingdom power.

[Angryminer]

As much as I'd like to bring up more suggestions, I also think that the debates about what will be implemented in the patch and what won't are finished. Also, please remind yourself that, if the patch will actually be produced, it will be free to us. Thus we can't expect new features or big gameplay enhancements. No matter how much we look forward to the patch we should keep our hopes on the gameplay-obstacles there are, those small things that severely destroy the gameplay. Think about the problem that negative town-income isn't substracted from your treasury, or how AI nations absolutely ignore the multitude of wars you declare and still respect you as their best friend although everyone knows that they are next to be conquered.
It's these smaller problems that (hopefully) can easily be fixed and that we might expect in a patch. Though, to be honest, we know nothing about the content of the patch. So we should wait and see what BSS and SF have in store for us, if the patch ever comes.

Remember, it will take a whole while until work on the patch begins, everything is implemented and a first version of the patch is tested at Sunflowers, bugs are reported, they are fixed, a new version is tested by SF, etc. We're talking about several months.

Angryminer

[kevincompton]

As much as I'd like to bring up more suggestions, I also think that the debates about what will be implemented in the patch and what won't are finished. Also, please remind yourself that, if the patch will actually be produced, it will be free to us. Thus we can't expect new features or big gameplay enhancements. No matter how much we look forward to the patch we should keep our hopes on the gameplay-obstacles there are, those small things that severely destroy the gameplay. Think about the problem that negative town-income isn't substracted from your treasury, or how AI nations absolutely ignore the multitude of wars you declare and still respect you as their best friend although everyone knows that they are next to be conquered.
It's these smaller problems that (hopefully) can easily be fixed and that we might expect in a patch. Though, to be honest, we know nothing about the content of the patch. So we should wait and see what BSS and SF have in store for us, if the patch ever comes.

Remember, it will take a whole while until work on the patch begins, everything is implemented and a first version of the patch is tested at Sunflowers, bugs are reported, they are fixed, a new version is tested by SF, etc. We're talking about several months.

Angryminer


I have to disagree with you, I don't see the AI completely ignoring siege weapons, not building castle defense, not building other structures and not engaging in proper siege strategy as problems that can be ignored in the next patch. The patch is only a complete patch if following its completion the AI actually uses all the features that humans do so that rediculous handicaps are not necessary.

Also I'm a bit confused by your pessimistic sentiment, a statement was released and even put on the KOH website regarding intentions for a new patch. So this "if ever" business is no longer necessary.

[Angryminer]

The deal can be rejected every second. Nothing is sure. It might be likely, but not sure.

Angryminer

[Richard]

Exactly what Angry said, it can just be a way to make some of the angry customers around here happy since anno and paraworld are comming out in a couple of months. Nothing is % sure, that's why I haven't got my hopes up yet, not until they say "Bss has agreed and signed the contract, patch will be released soon"
Hell I wouldn't believe any word from SF not until I see the actual thing.

[Elvain]

I have several very concrete requests.

I don't know if they were in the Angryminer's list sent to SF about year ago:
1) bad boy factor
I believe there could be done some mathematical formula to prevent easy game once you take over 10 provinces.
there would be constants :
number of provinces of top 7 countries = a
number of PLAYER's kingdom provinces = b

a) when 5b>a - chance to get AI's diplomatical agreement is 80% of normal state
when 4b>a - chance to get AI diplomatical agrement is 50% of normal state
when 3b>a - chance to get AI diplomatical agrement is 30% of normal state

b) or simple: if player reaches some certain points of power/number of provinces the Ai likenes of an agreement drops + probability of war declaration grows + Ai relation changes will be lower in negative values and higher in positive values

c) mathematical formula using as values AI number of provinces, player number of provinces and AI/player borders indicating: player's kingdom is large and have long border with AI which is small -> AI will act like vasals do (negative relation change to with the overlord leads to positive relation change with the vasal)
combinatino of those 3 proposals may lead to challenging games

now the game is easy when you start but ridiculously easy when you become powerfull

2) fixing bugs in reuniting quests:
a) when a duchy (Normandy) unites a kingdom (England) the title should change from duchy to Kingdom. This way there would be no duchies of England, earldoms of Scotland and despotates of Byzantia etc.

b) in some quests there is reuniting leads to declaration of war from otehr country (when bulgarian states of Karvuna/Tarnovo/Bdin reunite Bulgaria it is written that Serbia declares war on them, but in the game it is always England who declares the war, no matter who should it be)
so it should be fixed + there should be notification of this war.

3) improve AI behaviour:
a) when 2 AI marshals are in one provinces they should cooperate and fight together, not go their way and be defeated by smart player
b) there should be some hierarchy of priorities of the AI marshalls. They should be pre defined to:
- refill their food supply
- reinforce their allies
- refill their sqads
- care of the troops' morale
and then below the list there should be - attack towns, plunder

4) enable the AI to get exotic goods and so kingdom advantages!!
- of course it means that Ai can't get minor victory /what is btw impossible also now -
- possibly make the Ai import exotic goods for free

5) give the Ai advantages:
a) lower player's income in comparison to Ai income - make some constants affecting it (especialy tax/town tributes revenues, lower player's revenue from Ai vasal tributes to 1/3)

b) give the Ai more stability - AI's production of princes should be faster than player's (or see point c)

c) make the AI to do marriages also via diplomatical relations, not only peace treaties.
Other possibility is that when AI king starts his rule the time for "royal marriage" with local nobless is much shorter than if it is in player's case

6) make the game more modding friendly :biggrin:
--
I agree with Angryminer's words (red them after my previous post was written)

I think we should not ask for new features, at least not many and very big

but some bugs were revealed since "Anryminer's list" was sent to Sunflowers (year ago or...?) so thos should be taken into th elist.

the point 2 in my previous post wasn't there as far as I know

[kiri_hacker]

I think all the ideas are good just hope they release it soon!!!:cheers: thank you Evalin and thank you Sunflowers :go:

[Richard]

Elvain I like the bad boy idea, specially if it works the same way it does in paradox games.

Also it would be cool if the patch would wake those events that were never activated or finished on the original KOH.

[kevincompton]

what are events i keep hearing about? I've never even seen an event.

[kiri_hacker]

Maybe he means a historical battle ???

[Richard]

Modders have found events in the within the files of KOH that were never added into the game or finished, hence why Elvain has said SF distributed the game without finishing it. I think Elvain once said they where things like plague, Fairs, ect...

[kevincompton]

what are these reuniting quests people talk about?

[Elvain]

what are events i keep hearing about? I've never even seen an event.
Famine, plague, quests like "minority pay" (minrity from some province asks other kingdom to "free" that province from barbaric rule and when you conquer it, you recieve a bonus), "war of religions", etc.

those are in game scripts but are not working
what are these reuniting quests people talk about?when you play f.i. as Normandy, if you conquer english provinces and eliminate english earldoms, you can form England.

The same happens to Nicaea, Trebizond and Eirus if conquer Byzantia and eliminate "Latin states in Greece" and several others...

we call those features reuniting quests.

btw, anyone has ideas for POSSIBLE second patch?

[Elvain]

another thing I forgot to post is:

If some unit requires armory, it should have defense bonus.
It is ridiculous that unit like Normans have NO armour in the game. A unit that has th elargest shield and is very well armouder has the same defense as semi-naked highlanders. Ridiculous!

[Doux]

I agree with you Elvain, but that can be modded easily. The main things they should fix in the patch are, in my opinion, the things we're not happy with AND cannot modify.

AI:
-Should be able to use 9 squads of units and a full squad of siege units
-Should be more aggressive vs. the player and somewhat less vs. eachother (or maybe only the former)
-As suggested already, the AI should of course be able to obtain Kingdom Advantages, so that the "rumours" are more sensible.

[Anguille2]

I believe that Marshals who have a certain amount of stars shouldn't plunder anymore...these would attack only cities and enemy armies. Also they should try to replenish their troops when they have lost too many men.

[Xuca]

There's a problem with AI not hiring better units even when they are available and he has the money. He'll fill his army with swordsmen in a town where he hired the marshal, go to town in which he can hire teutonic knights and won't hire them because all his slots are full. So the AI should be able to disband the swordsmen or move them to garrison, and then hire the teutonic knights.

[kevincompton]

mod can this be made a sticky? I know that angryminer already submitted some list but there seems to be others here that would like their opinions considered for the next patch.