[Question] How to form new nations?

[Angryminer]

Just an example:
In a late game the Ottoman Empire (is this historically correct?) conquered all provinces to the HRE (Hungary etc.) and now
attacked the HRE but the HRE managed to defend itself and conquered some province from the Ottoman Empire.
However, these provinces are rather useless for the Emperor, because some of them are of muslim religion and the culture is so different that the only thing he will get from this provinces is a lot of trouble.
So he decides to create a new nation from these realms.

And now the question:
What possibilities will the Emperor have to create new countries?
Live with the rebellions, instabilities and unloyal knights because there is no such feature?
Create only vasalls or completely free nations too?
Predefined one-province-nations?
[ i.e.: From Serbia and Bosnia he can only create "Kingdom of Serbia" and "Kingdom of Bosnia" ]
Predefined more-province-nations?
[ i.e.: Serbia and Bosnia can only be combined to "Kindgom of Serbia" ]
Custom nations?
[ i.e.: The Emperor clicks the province "Transylvania" and is offered to create the nation "Siebenbürgen". If he adds "Pest" (right city?) to the querry he will is offered to create a two-province-"Siebenbürgen" or two-province-"Kingdom of Hungary". Adding Serbia allows him to create a three-province "Kingdom of Serbia", or Siebenbürgen or Hungary, etc. etc. ]

I guess I'll have to explain this again, but perhaps Frujin/Frank take this as a motivation to spend some thoughts on the creation of new nations and explain it to us ;) .

Angryminer

[Finellach]

I lost you somewhere at the end there. :D :p

Anyway I think this is very good question...if I understood it. As far as I can understand you are asking what will happen if for example you take "province" of Venetia and conquer the "province" of Austria. I too would like an answer to that question. I don't know how this worked in EU 2 since I never played it so if someone can tell me how it worked there...I am planning to get this game to have something to do until KoH comes out. :D

[Angryminer]

In EU2 there are predefined nations to choose from.
If you own the province "Magdeburg" you can create the nation "Altmark", which solely consists of the province Magdeburg.
The provinces "Anhalt" and "Sachsen" can be combined to the nation "Sachsen", but if you only hold "Anhalt" you can't create any new vasall from that province. You can't create a bigger "Altmark" too, so creating vasall-states in EU2 is pretty useless, because you can only create very tiny nations and they get annexed 5 minutes after their creation...

That's why I asked for custom nation.
Just select some provinces and choose one of the suggested names, voila!

Angryminer

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Angryminer
That's why I asked for custom nation.
Just select some provinces and choose one of the suggested names, voila!

Thats strange, but I also imagined it something like that. :D

Like for example: if you conquer most of the provinces in the Apennine penninsula you will get the option to name your nation Italy. That would be great IMO, but somehow it seems very complex.

I think it would be good also that you get at least two options(at least in some cases): one will be PC generated suggestion of the new name(like for example if you unite most Italian provinces you will have the option to name your nation Italy) and one will just add the conquered province to your nation which will carry the name of your default province like for exaple if you choose Croatia and conquer, I don't know, Austria (:D) your nation will still be called Croatia(although it would be good to also recieve and option to name it Austria as well)....well anyway I see this needs a lot of debate.

Great that someone remebered to ask this question. :go:

[Frank Fay]

When you conquer a realm, it becomes automatically a part of your Kingdom.

A realm has the following parameter:
- Kingdom
- Culture
- Nationality
- Religion

When you conquered a realm with a different religion you can convert them. Until you converted them, you get a penalty of the production. Same goes for Culture. Nationality will never change, so realms of different nationalities have always a penalty.

You can not conquer a realm and make it to your vassal. It would be rather pointless as your goal is to conquer all Europe.

However, of course rebels may spawn after you conquerd a new realm, they are called "loyalists". You can build / upgrade the town with specific buildings like an Inn to decrease the chance. But when a rebelion has started, it means not that the whole realm falls into disorder. You have time to assemble an army and to fight against them.

[Elewyn]

Thanks Frank for answer. And thanks to Angryminer for good question!

btw what about that option of renaming the kingdom after conguering significant part of Europe. Like f.e. when separate nation Languedoc conqueres whole France( after dfeat of England and France and Flandre) can the player, king of Languedoc rename his kingdom to France?

The asme f.e. when I from Bohemia conquer most of German lands, wil I have the possibility to call my kingdom Holy Roman Empire then instead of Bohemia?

[Angryminer]

Nationality will never change, so realms of different nationalities have always a penalty.That's the reason why I want to create vasalls from those less-interesting provinces.
I guess it needs a lot of time to convert a province's culture and religion. And even if you waited such a long time, the nation will still be a lot of trouble to you, because of uprisings due to different nationality.
As a king I would just form a new kingdom there, let one of my sons/knights rule it and be happy with the income from there.
The new kingdom won't suffer those penalties, because it has the provinces' religion, culture and nationality.
But when I want to become europe's emperor I can count on my vasall's vote.

That's the trick.
Less revolts, in exchange for a little bit fewer money.

Angryminer

[Frank Fay]

You can sent one of your princess to govern the realm and to convert it. Also you can build structures and upgrade the town to decrease the revolt risk. Different religion and culture has nothing to do with Rebelions in the first place. It depends on the happiness in the realm. And your kingdom power affects the revolt risk too. There many ways to keep your people calm.
And the nationality penalty is the lowest of all, about 10% of the income. It wont bother that much...

No you cant rename your kingdom. In the beginning you choose your kingdom, why then renaming it? However, it is not possible to name your kingdom.

[Elewyn]

I asked because of this Frujin's post:Originally posted by Frujin Well, you can find out, eventually. There are more simple and more complex events. For example, the simplest of all of kinds is:

If you play with one of Earldoms of Ulster, Munster or Leister in early period and if you mange to conquer all of the other two - you will get message "Do you want your Kingdom to be renamed to Ireland?"

and if you answer:

- Yes - your kingdom will be renamed to Ireland, your ruler title will be King instead of Earl, you will get differnet flag and colors.

- No - Rebels, loyal to Irish cause will spawn, but you will get some gold as a gift from happy local nobility., found here (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=16796&highlight=Ireland#post16796)

Is it only for case of Ireland in early period or for all kingdoms?

[Frank Fay]

But can not freely name it.

[Finellach]

I think you misunderstood FF. No one wants to name his/hers kingdom some stupid name. The question in essence is: will we get more choices to rename our kingdom with adding and conquering of other realms and kingdoms? ;)

[Elewyn]

That's okay. I meant it as it is described by Frujin, but also if it is possible for another regions/kingdoms. When Brandenburg rules whole Germany player will be asked if wants to change name to Germany or HRE, but still will have option to continue as Brandenburg

[Angryminer]

Or when the player unites all slavonic provinces he may be asked to rename his Kingdom to "Panslavistic Kingdom"...
There are many possibilities...

Angryminer

[Frank Fay]

I think you misunderstood FF
Yeah, I guess so...

However, the choice will be predefined.

[Frujin]

These events are pre-defined and are not for each Kingdom. Some of the major Medieval events are more or less represented. For example, if you play Normandy in 1000 and if you conquer Kent and Wessex, you will have the option to rename Normandy to England. :) Ring a bell?

Nut unfortunately we can't cover all history and all coutries for the limited time we have. For some there are events, for some - not al all.

[Nike]

Then I guess you'll have to postpone it! I prefer to have a postponed but better made game!

[Angryminer]

1. It would be fully sufficient to have a script-engine, so the users can make their own scripts.

2. Back ontopic
So we won't be able to create vasalls from our own territory?
Very sad.
I hate it when games tell me "No, you can't do that! Live with it!"...

Angryminer

[the_holy_knight]

Hmm maybe this would work if you are meaning make a new country/countries which are vassals to you. Your income wouldnt be as high but you wouldn't have to pay to renevate the realm which has been torn by war. And no problems with rebel uprisings apart from maybe other realms that you have conquered want the same treatment.
That's my 2 pennies!

[Angryminer]

That was exactly my idea.

Angryminer

[the_holy_knight]

Sos angry miner I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.
I've read about all the threads with over 2 pages all the way through today!
Well only 24 pages of the three word story thread. :eek: