Crusade

[Kuno of Gersenau]

i saw on the new Screenshots, that the Near East is also in, so I have a question. In the Medival were the Crusades, is it therfore possible to build for example Templars in Jerusalem (and not only in france)?

[shagrath_the_dead]

from what i have read and heared here i don't think this will be included,mayby in an expansion or add-on :D

[Kuno of Gersenau]

i don't mean, that you say to the other Christian kings: Guys, let us make a crusade!:D

I mean only, can you build in one period units in jerusalem, they aren't arabic.

[Frank Fay]

As "Western" King you can build in Jerusalem Western units but no arabic. While when you are an Arabic King you can not build a Templar...that would be strange, woudln't it?:)

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Yes, that's right. it sounds all very cool!:)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
As "Western" King you can build in Jerusalem Western units but no arabic. While when you are an Arabic King you can not build a Templar...that would be strange, woudln't it?:)

Now, that was a very good answer Frank :go:

:D

[Bora]

Originally posted by Kuno of Gersenau
i saw on the new Screenshots, that the Near East is also in, so I have a question. In the Medival were the Crusades, is it therfore possible to build for example Templars in Jerusalem (and not only in france)?

well,... frank or frujin had not explained how crusades will work,...
there is one religion and as i know that will be so also in the released versions. so a crusade without relion is kind of weird, isnt it? :)

@ frank: arabic units in jerusalem? sorry, but in the unit overview i have not seen much typical arrabic units ;)

i like KoH but the crusade will be the thing that lags a lot cause:

1. only ONE religion in whole the game
2. arrabic nations only have a real poor number of own typical units

so i will play KoH but i am pretty sure that i dont try a crusade or play an arrabic nation till those things have changed.
cause what i dont know/see dont makes me mad ;)

so sorry, frank & frujin, but that is my opinion

[Frank Fay]

When the game has undergone some changes, the Religion was included. We have now more than one religion. Also expect some news on the units soon.

[Elewyn]

Does that mean that expansion is not only on map but also unit expansion?

A suggestion: Maltese knights (saint John's order) in Aragón, Tolouse, Provence, Genoa, but also in Bohemia (we had many maltesean castles here) and Cyprus (instead of Rhode :))
and Assasins in Syria and Levante region.

and, yea... Beduins from Africa ;)

But back to crusade and templars in Jerusalem. I guess there is some misunderstanding: I think that Frank refused ability of doubled units in any region.As "Western" King you can build in Jerusalem Western units but no arabic. While when you are an Arabic King you can not build a Templar...that would be strange, woudln't it? :)

Btw, as far as I know there was not more than 20% of latin population in Kingdom of Jerusalem (in other crusader states it was far less!!) and only few Syrian-born crusaders. Latin (mostly french and italian) settlement was far weaker than german settlement in baltic lands concerned with teutonic order.

[Frank Fay]

Does that mean that expansion is not only on map but also unit expansion?
Yes...


I think that Frank refused ability of doubled units in any region.
I meant more that unit availability has to have also some logic. Like Arabic Kings will not be able to build Templar, because not only that Templar or Teutonic Knights are christian units, they look not like Arabians too.

[Elewyn]

I meant more that unit availability has to have also some logic. Like Arabic Kings will not be able to build Templar, because not only that Templar or Teutonic Knights are christian units, they look not like Arabians too. Does that mean that when I'll play for Egypt and build up a mighty empire including Italy and France, I'll be able to build only arabic units still? Or I will be disabled to build only strictly anti-muslim units like Templars or Teutons, but will be able to build feudal knights or Longbowmen?

There are two mixing principals: regional units and religious/cultural units.

I guess it's better to disable only Templars, Teutons or, if will be in, Assasins(strictly religious units*), but not swordsmen, crossbowmen or many others. Logic must be also connected with fun factor.
It would be boring to play as muslim nation if able to build only muslim units everywhere.

You know, when conquere France, disable Templars (?what unit then?) but let ability of buying(building) other units (as mercenaries f.i.)

*Of course, I know that every medieval soldier unit must be religiously defined too.

[Frank Fay]

no no...you can build the basic units...but not those "special" ....

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
no no...you can build the basic units...but not those "special" ....

But if muslems are only able to build "normal" units will they not be too weak then ? - unless you have planned to lower the cost of of each unit when muslems buy them.

I'm a bit confused about all of this - i'm beginning to understand why the muslim waseen't included to begin with.

[Angryminer]

He means:
"If moslems conquer france, they will be able to recruit swordsmen there, but no teutonic champions, because teutonic champions would refuse to fight for moslems. But they would be able to recruit longbowmen if they conquered england."

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Angryminer

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Angryminer
He means:
"If moslems conquer france, they will be able to recruit swordsmen there, but no teutonic champions, because teutonic champions would refuse to fight for moslems. But they would be able to recruit longbowmen if they conquered england."

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Angryminer

yeahh, Angryminer i sorta have figured that one out myself, but muslems should also have accesss to special units, otherwise they would be too weak - it's this whole balancing issue that i'm a bit cunfused about :confused:

[Frujin]

Ok. There units which are common in entire Europe as simple swordsman or peasants. Or archers. There is another groups of units which are available in specific regions only if you own that region with specific Kingdoms. It is not only religion counted.

Just imagine France accpeted Islam. Than what? What units they can made in Paris?

Or Seljuks taking Ortodox Christianity. Than what? Or even more interesting - Seljuks changing to Ortodox, than conquering Paris. What units thay can make in Paris?

Instead of explaining I'm asking questions just to point out that it is a bot more interesting than simple Arabian-European unit sets.

But please give us some time and we will explain all this in a special article.

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Frujin
Ok. There units which are common in entire Europe as simple swordsman or peasants. Or archers. There is another groups of units which are available in specific regions only if you own that region with specific Kingdoms. It is not only religion counted.

Just imagine France accpeted Islam. Than what? What units they can made in Paris?

Or Seljuks taking Ortodox Christianity. Than what? Or even more interesting - Seljuks changing to Ortodox, than conquering Paris. What units thay can make in Paris?

Instead of explaining I'm asking questions just to point out that it is a bot more interesting than simple Arabian-European unit sets.

But please give us some time and we will explain all this in a special article.

Thanks for your reply Frujin :)

It just seems to be VERY complex and that's what really worries me, but i'll arm myslef with patience and wait for the special article :rolleyes:

[Bora]

Originally posted by Frujin
Ok. There units which are common in entire Europe as simple swordsman or peasants. Or archers. There is another groups of units which are available in specific regions only if you own that region with specific Kingdoms. It is not only religion counted.

Just imagine France accpeted Islam. Than what? What units they can made in Paris?

Or Seljuks taking Ortodox Christianity. Than what? Or even more interesting - Seljuks changing to Ortodox, than conquering Paris. What units thay can make in Paris?

Instead of explaining I'm asking questions just to point out that it is a bot more interesting than simple Arabian-European unit sets.

But please give us some time and we will explain all this in a special article.

units dont care about religion, but crusades do ;)
so IF France would convert to islamd, they still would have theyre units and no units from jerusalem or other moslem regions.

[Bora]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
When the game has undergone some changes, the Religion was included. We have now more than one religion. Also expect some news on the units soon.

hope you take my suggestion i told you to powerup units. like to improve pikeman to heavy armored pikeman and so on
:)

reason: i liked the troop improvement in MTW so would not be that bad if KoH has it too :cheers:

[Siena]

Originally posted by Bora
hope you take my suggestion i told you to powerup units. like to improve pikeman to heavy armored pikeman and so on
:)

reason: i liked the troop improvement in MTW so would not be that bad if KoH has it too :cheers:

you could not really "powerup" units in MTW. The research would simply let you build stronger units of the same class. Or you could "rebuild" the same unit with better attributes (armor, weapons) if you had researched those.
What I mean is - that research would not change your existing units - you would have to build them again, anyway.

So it really does not matter if you build a "powered up" pickemen, or you just build a new unit with better attributes, that has same statistics as "powered up" pickemen.

However - this making it possible to build stronger units with research - has its flip side. You reach a point when your army consists solely of super-units, that nobody can beat.
And at that point the game ceases to be interesting. You will win every battle anyway...
So game is interesting only to the point that you build up your super-units and then defeat enemy a few times - later the pattern becomes too familiar - and too boring.

I think - the more gambling you have to do in the game - the more interesting it is. You don't really need tons of units, and super-units for that.
There is no gamble in the battle, when you know that your units are unbeatable.